Details on Delta TA
06-17-2015, 05:40 AM
#9471
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Timbo, you are a model pilot.
In the years I've anonymously known you on the internet you have never been one to say me first. we should all be that way as we climb the seniority list, even if we climb due to a push off a curb or down an escalator.
In the years I've anonymously known you on the internet you have never been one to say me first. we should all be that way as we climb the seniority list, even if we climb due to a push off a curb or down an escalator.
06-17-2015, 05:58 AM
#9472
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Stay THIRSTY, my friends!
Posts: 1,898
06-17-2015, 05:59 AM
#9473
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,116
Tim,
the reason we got profit sharing is because all the other stick and carrot opportunities were exhausted.
no one would fall for the pension carrot again......or esop stock.....or even pay rates 10 years out.
so dalpa and delta tried the..."Just keep pulling the wagon and WHEN the good times are back YOU TOO will get a share of the rewards!!!"
And true to form.....this pilot group swallowed the full load. The vulnerability of behavioral manipulation in this group runs deep when it comes to the 'promise' of a future (and greater) reward in exchange for present day compliance.
Its how most of us are wired and live out lives. there have even been some sharp operators who have used it to fleece pilots....a guy in nyc comes to mind.
And now...just like ALL the other promises of the brass ring....when it comes to paying the bill....the party responsible has dined and dashed.
FWIW....from my perspective all the things you cite...over the past decade of sacrifice...is more than full payment on our part for the PS payouts now.
What is being suggested with this TA is that now we have spent the last decade paying off the mortgage....we then sell the house below market value....and then RENT it back from the party to which we have sold it.
Sure....sounds like an investment plan pilots would buy into.....
the reason we got profit sharing is because all the other stick and carrot opportunities were exhausted.
no one would fall for the pension carrot again......or esop stock.....or even pay rates 10 years out.
so dalpa and delta tried the..."Just keep pulling the wagon and WHEN the good times are back YOU TOO will get a share of the rewards!!!"
And true to form.....this pilot group swallowed the full load. The vulnerability of behavioral manipulation in this group runs deep when it comes to the 'promise' of a future (and greater) reward in exchange for present day compliance.
Its how most of us are wired and live out lives. there have even been some sharp operators who have used it to fleece pilots....a guy in nyc comes to mind.
And now...just like ALL the other promises of the brass ring....when it comes to paying the bill....the party responsible has dined and dashed.
FWIW....from my perspective all the things you cite...over the past decade of sacrifice...is more than full payment on our part for the PS payouts now.
What is being suggested with this TA is that now we have spent the last decade paying off the mortgage....we then sell the house below market value....and then RENT it back from the party to which we have sold it.
Sure....sounds like an investment plan pilots would buy into.....
06-17-2015, 06:06 AM
#9475
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: No to large RJs
Posts: 369
Yup. Why anyone in the bottom half of the seniority list would vote Yes to this is beyond me. I'm in the highest paying category, I'd reap the biggest reward with the 8% raise and the LCA won't affect me at all. I'm voting NO because I do not believe we got all we could get out of a company that is going to make more in this quarter than the entire value of this TA over 3 years!
We were raped in bankruptcy, there is no other word for it. We lost 42% of our pay, many of our QOL benefits, and all of our retirement. About 1400 guys were furloughed. Many guys lost their houses and/or got divorces and there were 8 suicides. If you weren't here for all of that, I can see where you might not be as PO'd as the rest of us who had to live through that.
The only reason we got Profit Sharing in the first place was due to the Billions we gave the company in making those sacrifices.
We have been slowly clawing our way back ever since then, but as you saw in 2012, and now in this POS TA, our MEC is constantly trading away stuff we have already negotiated for, for pittance raises of 3%. We are still today, 18% BELOW our 2004 pay rates, AND our Retirements are severely underfunded!
This company is now making BILLIONS! Some of that BILLIONS is OUR RETIREMET money and OUR PAY CUTS and the JOBS LOST with PBS bidding and the rest of us flying 87-92 hours a month!
GIVE US BACK OUR MONEY FIRST!
Then you can "Reward the Shareholders".
We were raped in bankruptcy, there is no other word for it. We lost 42% of our pay, many of our QOL benefits, and all of our retirement. About 1400 guys were furloughed. Many guys lost their houses and/or got divorces and there were 8 suicides. If you weren't here for all of that, I can see where you might not be as PO'd as the rest of us who had to live through that.
The only reason we got Profit Sharing in the first place was due to the Billions we gave the company in making those sacrifices.
We have been slowly clawing our way back ever since then, but as you saw in 2012, and now in this POS TA, our MEC is constantly trading away stuff we have already negotiated for, for pittance raises of 3%. We are still today, 18% BELOW our 2004 pay rates, AND our Retirements are severely underfunded!
This company is now making BILLIONS! Some of that BILLIONS is OUR RETIREMET money and OUR PAY CUTS and the JOBS LOST with PBS bidding and the rest of us flying 87-92 hours a month!
GIVE US BACK OUR MONEY FIRST!
Then you can "Reward the Shareholders".
I hope I'm wrong and this group shows me something. Just remember, what goes around, comes around. How important will retirement issues be to my group in future contracts?!? Medical, pass privileges etc...Our negotiators were played and worse the MEC put this divisive BS before us. We are all in this together. Show MGT and our union we are above this BS.
06-17-2015, 06:12 AM
#9477
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2012
Position: 7ER Costar
Posts: 406
"We are moving forward as a unified group, taking the initiative, serving your direction, and capitalizing on this tremendous opportunity to put the past where it belongs and achieve the best pilot contract in the world." - Mike Donatelli
Is that what this TA does for us?
Is that what this TA does for us?
06-17-2015, 06:13 AM
#9478
Runs with scissors
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Posts: 7,730
That's it. 4 out of 30.
And there were many concessions in our C2K as well, but Delta was earning an unheard of amount... $1 Billion, that's how we got those pay rates. And we leaped over UAL and the NWA strike in 98 helped push them up too. I never forgot the sacrifices made by others to get us here.
And now we are earning how much? $1 Billion per quarter? More?
And this POS TA won't even get us back to 2004 rates until 2018? And NO payback for the $1.4 Million they took from my DB plan?
Are you KIDDING ME??
If we can't make HISTORIC GAINS when Richard is buying back $5 Billion in stock and doubling the dividends, we are idiots.
Last edited by Timbo; 06-17-2015 at 06:29 AM.
06-17-2015, 06:18 AM
#9479
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Posts: 367
It would be interesting to see how much a reserve flies and what the ALVs are like pre and post C12.
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06-17-2015, 06:31 AM
#9480
Runs with scissors
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Posts: 7,730
I'll tell you what happened, the 2012 contract pizzed of some guys so much that they decided to enhance their pay and/or time off through use of sick leave. That is why there are so many restrictions on sick leave in this new TA.
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