Shaggy1970

Can someone explain the 75% of the FO lines to be withheld from LCA, sorry an outsider looking in, but not familiar with the terms that they using to try bend your FO's over with.

MtEverest

I know Sailingfun or one of the other sales guys posted some "exerpts of people happy with the TA". Thought I would post a few comments that represent the majority for those not able to access the Delta MEC Facebook page:

"When discussing social media, please don’t neglect the fact that YOUR Delta MEC Comm page on Facebook censored comments during a critical period before the LEC reps voted. The TA has been posted, the facts are known. It is DALPA that waits for the members to find the Easter eggs buried in the hundreds of pages of legal speak and demand explanations. You [should] know what was hidden in there, why don’t you preemptively point out the concessions?

Thanks for the “pledge.” I attended a road show and read the communications during C2012, all I saw was spin…no concessions, no trades, all good, vote “Yes.” Is a simple, honest, factual PRO/CON paper too much to ask? Is it too expensive to produce? Please endorse the popular "Con" paper that began making it around social media yesterday and feel free to amend it with a similar "Pro" section.

Hear our voice, the MEC, the entrenched career staffers, the chosen ones, have all lost credibility and the confidence of the members. We want our PS untouched, we want our LCA trips, leave our sick leave alone. Show us that our direction and survey results were followed. The Company has overreached in a time of historic prosperity and no one fought to stop them."

"So here is what (really) is occurring Mike Donatelli. Your letter displays arrogance and a complete disconnect from what is currently going on in the pilot group that you are supposed to represent.

For the record I consider myself a pro ALPA guy. A have flown three trips since this TA was published. I have been in the crew lounges in DTW, LAX and ATL. Your characterization of the opposition to this TA as a small group of activists laying in wait is at best delusional. The pilot group wants straight facts with no sales pitches. Real costs in jobs and dollars for the different concessions would also be appreciated."

MtEverest

"Mike, as you said, we just signed a TA that is, I quote “the richest in pilot history, unmatched anywhere in the country or the world”. After reading the TA that is posted on the DALPA website, here are the reasons that I am voting No.

1. Compensation - Inadequate because we are giving up profit sharing to fund the increase in pay rates. The other areas of compensation increase (vacation, training pay, etc.) are pathetic at best.

2. Sick Leave - Punitive, intrusive and probably the worst sick leave policy I have seen in my 30 year career.

3. JV and RJ Scope - More concessions that will put our international flying at risk and more RJ’s flying our domestic routes at a time when DAL is making record profits.

I am not part of a “small but vocal group who have been lying in wait” as you put it but a line pilot that has come to this conclusion as a result of reviewing the TA as published on DALPA site."

"Mike Donatelli stated that this TA brings pay rates that are "the richest in pilot history, unmatched anywhere in the country or the world." He then goes on to say "that is FACT." Well, it's not fact, it's opinion. "Richest" implies "highest buying power." This TA may meet in adjusted pay rate numbers for C2K, but they come nowhere NEAR the buying power, or cost of living adjusted "richness" of C2K pay rates. He also calls the pay increases "substantial," which is a subjective word, and proclaims this as, again, FACT.

He then has the utter temerity to claim that there will be no sales job, and that those who oppose this TA on its merits who post on Social Media Platforms are ignorant and would vote NO on any agreement.

Well, claiming this is the richest TA in pilot history is an obvious falsehood. Claiming that the increases are substantial is a matter of subjective opinion, not a fact.

And Mike Donatelli saying there'll be no sales job, while selling the TA, is insulting. Res ipsa loquitor.

First this TA must be voted down. Then, everyone associated with its creation or promotion should be sent packing, for good. We need a clean slate."

Carl Spackler

Yet another nugget "anticipated block hours needed." If there's a continuous over estimation of anticipated block hour needs, there's no mechanism to call them on it. They get to define it.

Carl

MtEverest

Has anybody heard from Council 1 or 20? Will they provide a proper pro/con paper in the tradition of ALPA that was once trusted with facts?

Carl Spackler

We've already seen this tactic used by ALPA attorneys contacting pilots for their speech. We'll see lots more. Sailingfun's latest attempt is wrong as follows:

Corruption definition from Webster's: Noun: Dishonest or illegal behavior especially by powerful people (such as government officials or police officers)

Notice it's dishonest OR illegal. There's no part of the MEC administration's corrupt behavior that is illegal...it's just dishonest and undeniably so. Donatelli's latest email is yet another example of the pure dishonest behavior.

Don't think for one second that sailingfun and/or ALPA attorneys are trying to protect you. They are trying to silence you.

Carl

orvil

Nice catch, Carl.

Instructordude

I am a yes but what happens when the company cant afford these 20% raises? Now what? Profit sharing wont matter cause will headed towards BK. I actually like the sick call procedures, keeps people honest, and dont mind the LCA. Why should anybody be payed to sit at home. Pretty sure nobody gets paid to sit on their a$$ at HQ's. I am proudly voting yes but with reservations.

ERflyer

I'm undecided but leaning yes at this point.

First, even the last TA had yes voters being derided. It was to such an extent that many thought the TA would fail. It did not. It does seem to be even more irrationally hysterical this time. There are negative aspects about this TA. But too many times individuals are attacked for their viewpoints if they voice support for DALPA and/or a TA. This TA and C2012. I totally supported C2012 after some initial hesitation. But after gathering enough information and FACTS I no longer had any doubt about supporting it. I'm up 37.5% on the same seat, no green slips.

Like I said, I am currently undecided on this one however.

But there are positive aspects about this TA.

First, the money. It's a 21.5% in pay rates which are guaranteed. Additionally, profit sharing payout totals will stay the same or even increase even with the change in the profit sharing formula. At $10B profit sharing will still be 25%+ of W-2. The arguments about inflation, profit sharing reduction and "me too" clauses do not tip the balance. We will make as much as 28% more than American at the end of this contract (a fact not lost on the NMB and our management) due to pay rates and profit sharing. If the world goes to hell we'll make 3.5% more than American. Without the TA I'll make 8-15% less than American if we have zero profit. So my range is -15 to +28% depending on the pass/fail of the TA and world events.

Second, there are increases in vacation pay and training pay. Vacation pay increases by 7.7%, 15 minutes. Not enough to buy a Porsche but it's $2500 for me.

Third, there are improvements in sick leave as well as the negative changes. The positive:

Sick leave improvements:

1 - Increased disability offsets. Eliminated earned income offset after 36 months.

2 - 50% of unused sick leave credit hours below 80 hours each year will be used to fund a disability account for top off if a pilot goes on disability

3 - Increased LTD benefit duration for pilots diagnosed with psychiatric conditions.

4 - Establish FAA leave for a pilot awaiting approval of his FAA medical certificate.

We asked for these and we got them.

There are other positive aspects aspects of the TA too.

To be sure I am still looking at sick leave and code sharing more carefully. I'll listen and read the information from DALPA and not just here. Like any analysis and debrief there are pluses and "others".

It is good to have a spirited debate. But when one's best line of attack is to call someone considering voting yes "stupid" it makes one's argument especially weak. In fact it will drive fence sitters into the opposing view. It was the same attitude last time and of course 62% of us were "idiots" then too. It is interesting how much more often those voting yes treated no voters with respect .

Somehow I think we're all smarter than this. Let's debate the facts logically without personal attacks and come to our own decision. Otherwise we become a riotous crowd without regard for our fellow coworkers. And we will be working together with the TA voted in or not.

Mark Marchione

Carl Spackler

Total BS. This is about giving away jobs and dividing the pilot group. Nothing more. If they really were concerned about a "small percentage of pilots" you could easily make a limit of once per year, then you're bypassed to the next FO. But that's not what they did, because it wasn't their concern. Their concern was reducing the need for Delta pilots at Delta, while dividing the pilots who remain.

Carl