Originally Posted by slowplay

Too bad. It was well written!

Originally Posted by SharpestTool

The reason I ask is those items really aren't money items. I think where the rubber meets the road they are principle issues that flight ops have hard on over. More likely to succeed there versus significant money issues. I think we have very little odds of success, considering the NMB and TVM when it comes to money.

Originally Posted by Ferd149

I continue to caution any "us vs (fill in the blank)". Denny is one of those darn As as are lots of guys urging no votes.

During the bankruptcy years we had several suicides in both companies over, I understand, mostly money. Yes, there will be lots of low educated voters who will look only at the money. However, there will be lots of guys with problems outside their control and we need to separate the two.

Good thing I'm rich and can afford to vote NO

Originally Posted by Cabs

I've been lurking and can't keep out of this any longer. The talk is that pay is the only good thing in this TA? IMO, the pay is average at best and also dangerous in the B scale it presents on the E190. DALPA is promoting how the E190 will be 3.5% above JB in 2016 and 9.8% above JB in 2018. How about a comparison of JB and DL rates on the 320? On the 320, we will be 19.8% higher than JB in 2016 and 26.6% higher than JB in 2018! In my book, that adds up to an epic fail on the E190 rates. As it stands now, no one senior to 10,500 will have any interest in the E190. If the E190 rate was 19.8% higher than JB in 2016, the DL rate would be $218. At that rate, it would sit just below the 717 rate and be a real advance in pay over a FO position.

To me, the presentation by DALPA about E190 pay is just another example of an incomplete truth. I don't see how anyone can defend the E190 pay. It may be of no significance to many, but if the rates were paid in the same ratio to JB pay as the 320, I bet the E190 would get interest from seniority 6000 and below. A plane with interest from half the seniority list is a real gain. As it stands, we will certify a B scale that later could be used to establish 320 pay.

We need to organize and stop this now! No, no no.

Originally Posted by FlyZ

Tool,
Who cares?

Who cares, who cares, who cares?!

WE ARE BETTER OFF WITH OUR CURRENT CONTRACT! I don't care about time value of money, if the job I worked so hard to attain goes by the wayside as this TA allows Delta to be dismantled from the inside out. Without mentioning pay rates, tell us how the rest of this ridiculous TA happened. Why in a million years would we give our MEC CHAIRMAN the right to allow China Eastern to slap the Delta paint scheme all over their wide bodies? Why would we sign up for sick leave harassment program that most Fortune 500 managements would be embarrassed to even propose? These questions take all the air out of the worn out DALPA TVM argument from 2012. You guys need to think of something new. The sad thing is that there is nothing else good in this TA to crow about, and that's why I think the Delta pilots will finally see through the DALPA smokescreen and vote no this time.

I would LOVE to get parked by the NMB. Know why? Because we could continue under our current contract (yeah, even C2012 is good compared to TA2015). I will keep collecting my profit sharing checks, earning good pay, and avoid all the traps that Management and DALPA are laying in front of us. Plus, it might allow us time to vote in new representation...if the RLA allows that?

Originally Posted by MtEverest

Because money is all it's every about right? Even if your numbers were correct, you fail to mention the heinous concessions in this TA. I really hope you are from Ford and Harrison. I don't ever want to fly with a pilot so fixated on one thing. That's how you crash and burn.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

You're absolutely right. It's a "B" scale pure and simple. While that is really bad, it pales in comparison to the top and bottom end scope job losses.

Carl

Originally Posted by slowplay

At the MEC meeting the negotiating committee put up a bunch of slides on our sick leave use and its change over time. I'm working from notes, so I apologize for any errors. Since 2012 sick leave usage is up 30%. The top 20% of sick leave users that don't go on disability use 50% of our sick leave. 5% of our pilots use more than 40 days per year and never go TD or LTD.

They also addressed that demographically our aging pilot group should only use about 1% more, not 30% more. There has been a pilot behavior change. UAL and AMR's sick leave has decreased (no data provided) but both those properties have substantially more punitive sick leave provisions than we do, beginning with only 60 hours of accrual.

They said because of increased costs this is one of management's top priorities.

I hope one of the notepads covers this, as sick leave was just a few slides in a big deck.