Details on Delta TA
06-13-2015, 06:23 AM
#8331
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: Kickin’ Back
Posts: 6,971
Everyone needs to go to the chitchat forum and read the post:
What is in a Medical Note? - The pitfalls of Section 14
by Bob Lange
I will try and repost it here later. Sick leave can now be handled in Section 15 (and you can't read Section 15 in the new TA) Physical Examinations. In short, once you're sick 15 days in 365 you have no privacy rights in regards to medical and social history. They can access everything on your medical and social history. And Delta can question the decision your doctor made in giving you a "medical note". This is a huge concession.
What is in a Medical Note? - The pitfalls of Section 14
by Bob Lange
I will try and repost it here later. Sick leave can now be handled in Section 15 (and you can't read Section 15 in the new TA) Physical Examinations. In short, once you're sick 15 days in 365 you have no privacy rights in regards to medical and social history. They can access everything on your medical and social history. And Delta can question the decision your doctor made in giving you a "medical note". This is a huge concession.
His qualifications to comment on the subject are absolutely impeccable!
Denny
06-13-2015, 06:24 AM
#8332
Runs with scissors
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Posts: 7,730
You'll look sweet in that shiny new 737-900, flying ATL-MCO turns or LAX all nighters though...
06-13-2015, 06:24 AM
#8333
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,544
Anyone know the origin of the virtual base? This concept sounds like one huge concession.
Bidding? Reserve coverage? Sick leave? Obviously no paid moves.
Was this pushed by a small group of pilots? Effect on staffing, white slips, green slips?
As one of the few who filled out the contract survey, I do not remember this item.
Bidding? Reserve coverage? Sick leave? Obviously no paid moves.
Was this pushed by a small group of pilots? Effect on staffing, white slips, green slips?
As one of the few who filled out the contract survey, I do not remember this item.
06-13-2015, 06:25 AM
#8334
Moderator
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 6,992
Yeah, I was here, bankruptcy sucks we all got the T-Shirt. For me the issue is once bankruptcy is over how do you recover. This MEC has led the way since 2008. US Air sat for a decade with nothing. American 5 years or more. Continental and United 3 years or more. All I know is that I have made a lot more over the last 5 years than my friends at American and United and they are eternally p-o'd at coming to work every day. I like my job and my company and I can read my W-2's.
We were driven into a ditch by crappy management. This MEC has drug us out of the ditch better than anyone else. Not perfectly, but I am not perfect either so I forgive those who trespass against me. This TA is not perfect either but if we wait for a perfect contract we will all be dead first. This is a lot of money for people that need it. I am an optimist, I concentrate on the good, some always concentrate on the bad.
We were driven into a ditch by crappy management. This MEC has drug us out of the ditch better than anyone else. Not perfectly, but I am not perfect either so I forgive those who trespass against me. This TA is not perfect either but if we wait for a perfect contract we will all be dead first. This is a lot of money for people that need it. I am an optimist, I concentrate on the good, some always concentrate on the bad.
Think long term and big picture. If we accept 8/0/3/3 in a time of record profits we are lowering the bar for every future contract.
What kind of raises so you think we will get next time if the profits decline?
Maybe 2/1/1/1?
I would rather keep my at risk compensation as is. It would also go to zero but would automatically recover with the company.
We are 14 years after 9-11 and our pay rates are not even close to being recovered even though we are wildly more profitable. If we had a similar PS component back then our pay would have resumed with returning DAL profits. Under this TA we only increase our pay rates by "selling" QOL issues at fire-sale prices.
Again - think long term.
Scoop
06-13-2015, 06:28 AM
#8335
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: A330 First Officer
Posts: 1,465
There is no way your straight pay increased that much in the same seat. You had to have upgraded or are counting your profit sharing in that total. If that is the case you need to figure out how much you lost when your retirement went the way of the dinosaur. If I remember correctly the profit sharing plan was something we negotiated in exchange for not protesting the DB plan termination.
06-13-2015, 06:29 AM
#8336
Runs with scissors
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Posts: 7,730
Unless you upgraded from MD88 F/O to 777 Captain since bankruptcy you are full of crap! Show your math.
06-13-2015, 06:35 AM
#8337
Moderator
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 6,992
Timbo,
Its possible with longevity, upgrades, PS and a whole lot of GSs.
Ironically if this TA is approved he can write off the PS and GS's in the future but he can't see that because he is fixated on the pay rates.
Scoop
06-13-2015, 06:37 AM
#8338
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2012
Posts: 129
It's the ultimate expression of the trend begun by Moak - concentrate power in the hands of one man, abetted by loyal acolytes, and then use that power to benefit an agenda that disregards the negative effects on the lowly common man. In Moak's case it was to advance his career beyond DAL. In Donatelli's case I am unsure but it may be the same self-serving agenda, which is predictable and boring. Or it could be a hyped-up case of corporate infatuation, which at least has a more interesting psychological component to it.
06-13-2015, 06:37 AM
#8339
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: Kickin’ Back
Posts: 6,971
What you have posted here is inaccurate.
You are combining two different things. There is a verification threshold. Verification is done by your M.D.,D.O.,D.D.S., D.C.,D.M.D., or D.P.M., A.P.R.N., P.A. - C, or PhD and is credentialed as a licensed clinical psychologist. Verification is required if you use more than 15 days of sick in a rolling 365 days.
Worse than we currently have...
There is a medical release threshold of 24 sick days in a rolling 365 or 52 days in a 3 year period. You must first be provided the opportunity to use your provider to satisfy the medical basis for your sick leave; a medical release must be limited to the specific instance in which a pilot claimed sick leave AND the day(s) on which the pilot claimed sick leave and the consecutive day(s) off immediately preceding and succeeding the day(s) on which a pilot claimed sick leave.
Much worse than what we have now! I have the "opportunity" to use my own Doctor but who determines whether their "note" is valid? Sounds like the DHS does and there are NO safeguards!
These provisions take the CPO out of the verification loop. The only non-medical professional that can be involved in the process is the SVP Flight Operations, and he can only be involved if the medical verification and medical release do not provide sufficient information for them to determine why you used sick leave.
See above.
You can read the language in the TA Section 14. The 15 day, 24 day, and 52 day triggers are clearly concessionary. The rest is not, taking non-medical people out of the process, and should enhance our privacy.
You are combining two different things. There is a verification threshold. Verification is done by your M.D.,D.O.,D.D.S., D.C.,D.M.D., or D.P.M., A.P.R.N., P.A. - C, or PhD and is credentialed as a licensed clinical psychologist. Verification is required if you use more than 15 days of sick in a rolling 365 days.
Worse than we currently have...
There is a medical release threshold of 24 sick days in a rolling 365 or 52 days in a 3 year period. You must first be provided the opportunity to use your provider to satisfy the medical basis for your sick leave; a medical release must be limited to the specific instance in which a pilot claimed sick leave AND the day(s) on which the pilot claimed sick leave and the consecutive day(s) off immediately preceding and succeeding the day(s) on which a pilot claimed sick leave.
Much worse than what we have now! I have the "opportunity" to use my own Doctor but who determines whether their "note" is valid? Sounds like the DHS does and there are NO safeguards!
These provisions take the CPO out of the verification loop. The only non-medical professional that can be involved in the process is the SVP Flight Operations, and he can only be involved if the medical verification and medical release do not provide sufficient information for them to determine why you used sick leave.
See above.
You can read the language in the TA Section 14. The 15 day, 24 day, and 52 day triggers are clearly concessionary. The rest is not, taking non-medical people out of the process, and should enhance our privacy.
Denny
Last edited by Denny Crane; 06-13-2015 at 06:52 AM. Reason: Color coding
06-13-2015, 06:38 AM
#8340
Runs with scissors
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Posts: 7,730
We are STILL 18% below our 2004 pay rates, and this TA won't get us back to those rates until 2018! Now subtract 14 years of inflation from those rates and see where you are!
OH, and let's not forget, we still don't have the same value in our retirement plans that we had in 2004.
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