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Old 06-11-2015, 12:44 PM
  #7791  
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Originally Posted by Pilotfo64
Im no expert on lawyer PWA speak....but am I reading 23.Q.7.f exception 1 right? The whole section is in red. It basically says if you call in sick for a trip, and put in a gs for later in the month.....they will use the FAR flight time and duty times from the missed trip (sick trip) to calculate the FAR flight and duty limits when determining if they can legally assign you the GS?

Is this right? So, if I call in sick....I am risking NOT getting a GS later in the month?
You are Welcome, Historic!
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Old 06-11-2015, 01:00 PM
  #7792  
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Originally Posted by Pilotfo64
Im no expert on lawyer PWA speak....but am I reading 23.Q.7.f exception 1 right? The whole section is in red. It basically says if you call in sick for a trip, and put in a gs for later in the month.....they will use the FAR flight time and duty times from the missed trip (sick trip) to calculate the FAR flight and duty limits when determining if they can legally assign you the GS?

Is this right? So, if I call in sick....I am risking NOT getting a GS later in the month?
This needs to be highlighted again. Nothing about changing GS triggers in the notepads, someone actually had to go through the TA and find this. Even more PUNISHMENT for calling in sick.
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Old 06-11-2015, 01:07 PM
  #7793  
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Originally Posted by boog123
You are Welcome, Historic!
Not all things that are historic are good. The plague was historic. I bet there are several more of these Easter eggs in the TA. Good hunting.
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Old 06-11-2015, 01:20 PM
  #7794  
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Originally Posted by TenYearsGone
THats what most said in C2012 but it passed. How?? Well, Either the

#1) memrat voting is corrupt

or

#2) the MEC spin machine is so good it can sell 60%+ of 12500 pilots.


IF #2) then why cant they sell management on restoration plus inflation? Kind of strange, dont you think?

TEN
Sailing tells us vote tampering is impossible and people would go to jail. After reviewing the conduct of DALPA and the secret circle, you don't believe they would massage the vote "for the greater good"?

You have to understand how badly some of these inside guys want to please their superiors to understand how far they are willing to go. Actions speak louder than words. If they are willing to publicly crush the dissenting voices of those they represent, what will they do behind closed doors? Do you have confidence, based upon their actions, they will do the right thing?

There is too much at stake to not take this threat seriously. Can we request a group of the no voting reps (including Tom who I would trust) to observe and audit the vote. After the FB deleting nonsense don't we deserve that peace of mind? If DALPA refuses to agree to this simple request, it's as good as admitting they have something planned for the vote.
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Old 06-11-2015, 01:22 PM
  #7795  
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The worst part is he was mocked by the Council 108 captain rep for these comments.

Originally Posted by Airbusdude14
June 11, 2015
(pdf is attached as a viewing option)

Contract 2015 Chairman’s Update #1

Fellow pilots of Council 66,

The MEC voted on the TA in open session yesterday in Atlanta. As you may know by now, the result of the TA vote was 11 for and 8 against. Both NYC reps voted against the TA. It will now proceed to membership ratification, where you will be the final arbiters. More on that soon.

Below is a transcript of the speech that I made to the MEC yesterday during open session. This will provide you a brief look at my reasoning for voting “No.” I recognize that there is a thirst for information, and we will follow up very shortly with more background for you. In addition to information from your reps, you can count on the Delta MEC administration to provide you with a wealth of information at https://dal.alpa.org. As always, feel free to reach out to me, Chris, or Dave, with your thoughts and concerns.

“Ladies and gentlemen, members of the MEC, and MEC administration,

“I would like to thank the negotiators, the MEC administration, the attorneys, subject-matter experts, and everyone involved in the effort put forth thus far in crafting the TA before us.

“Never in the last 42 years that I have been piloting commercial aircraft have I witnessed a greater spread between the economic climate in which we found ourselves and the resulting agreement. And, that most certainly includes our pre- and post-bankruptcy concessionary contracts.

“We are highly skilled, mission-oriented pilots. We are, in my estimation and the company’s as well, the finest pilots on the planet. Our hard work should be rewarding us, not demanding that we be granting the company relief. We have before us the best negotiating environment in our careers; multiple record-breaking profits; incredibly high load factors. The timing is right for an historic contract. We raised expectations, sure, in our opener and in our communications—are we guilty of over-promising and under-delivering? I’ll leave that up to you to decide.

“The pilots of Delta Air Lines have spoken loudly to us—in crew lounges, at meetings, in multiple surveys and out flying the line. These pilots have given greatly to save this airline, and they have told us loud and clear that now is the time for payback.

“But perhaps we are missing the point.

“This agreement isn’t about money or scope or sick leave. This agreement is about respect. Respect from the company and self-respect for ourselves. Agreeing to this TA means we accept the notion that management has little respect for our past sacrifices and the professional job we do day in and day out. Agreeing to this TA means we have lost our own self-respect for our skills and dedication. We will chase a pay rate, and abandon benefits and quality of life, just to get to that shiny number. And frankly, the pay rate ain’t all that shiny.

“Look closely at this agreement. The devil is in the details.

“With great thanks for all those involved in its crafting, my belief is that accepting a TA that is marginal at best will haunt us for years to come. It’s time we stopped bluffing. Management has overreached, and we must not validate their overreach. In good faith to both the pilots I represent and all the pilots of Delta Air Lines, I must vote ‘No’ on this TA.

“I vowed to follow a clear process from the start. In keeping with that promise, I can’t accept a TA that clearly does not meet the mandate of this pilot group. The pilots’ mandate and the direction given to the negotiators never included making drastic sacrifices to important sections of our contract during such prosperous times.

“For those around the horseshoe who want to reject it but plan to pass it along to the pilots to ‘let them decide,’ I ask, ‘What purpose do you serve? Why have an MEC?’

“This body’s credibility is at stake every time we forward a TA to our fellow pilots. We are the first arbiters after the negotiators and must not abdicate our solemn duty.

“This TA should sell itself, and common sense says it cannot. It under-delivers. It would take a full court press, with a very slim chance of getting this thing across the finish line. It shouldn’t be so. It must not be so.

“Thank you for the privilege of addressing you.”

Respectfully,


Chairman
Council 66
[email]

“Member Driven”







Air Line Pilots Association, International
ALPA - Home
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Old 06-11-2015, 01:26 PM
  #7796  
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After the illegal censorship and total disrespect for DALPA shows its members, I am starting wonder how confident we can be in the voting process and counting. I really don't want to worry about that aspect.

I asked a rep (not mine) yesterday if we can be 100% confident the memrat will be legit. His answer was a cryptic, "I certainly hope so."

Somebody give me a warm fuzzy so I can drop that thought.
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Old 06-11-2015, 01:29 PM
  #7797  
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June 11, 2015
(pdf is attached as a viewing option)

Council 66 pilots,

After 10 long and arduous meetings and hundreds of hours of debate, direction, debate, redirection, and debate, the Delta MEC has approved the TA for membership ratification. Achieving this TA was not easy. The expedited timeline in no way diminishes the work and dedication that has been put into this process. We accomplished in six months what other carriers take three years to achieve.

My goal is to provide the Council 66 pilots with my perspective of the process, the facts of the TA, and to shed light on the debates we had at the MEC level. Instead of inundating you with pages of information, I plan to release a number of shorter updates to keep the discussion and debate ongoing.

I would humbly ask that we all evaluate the TA calmly and professionally. Do not allow yourself to fall prey to emotion and diatribe. There will be a tremendous amount of information coming your way. Please take the time to educate yourselves as much as possible on the TA. Read the information that the Association sends you, go to road shows, and call and e-mail your reps. Take the time to visit with your reps and P2P volunteers in the lounge. Engage and interact.

At the beginning of this process Delta MEC chairman Captain Mike Donatelli promised the Delta pilots a historic contract. I believe he made good on his promise. The proposed 2017 and 2018 pay rates put the Delta pilots above the high water marks of both carrier’s previous rates. This rate is 3.78% above the Delta C2K rates in 2004 and 23.7% above the Northwest bridge agreement rates in 2003. This does not include any profit sharing. The TA proposed pay rates have four captain category aircraft rates above $300 an hour. The smallest category captain rate is north of $200 dollars an hour. This contract achieves restoration. The pay rates for captains exceed the combined captain and first officer rates from just 10 years ago. The pay rates achieved in this TA have never been seen by this pilot group, or our peers for that matter. This TA brings the EMB190 aircraft to mainline Delta. This TA does not only pay Delta pilots the highest rates in the industry, but does so with a healthy margin.

Is that margin “healthy” enough for some? There are those who will say “no.” There are those who will say “yes,” and there is a wide middle ground who will say “I’m not quite sure.” This debate and internal struggle was played out over and over and over again at the MEC. No representative came to this decision lightly or easily. In fact, I am more proud than ever to wear the uniform of a Delta pilot after personally witnessing the process play out. I specifically said the process and not the outcome. The process was a year’s worth of work, mapped, planned, and executed. The process was vigorous and rigorous debate. The process allowed 19 status reps with the backing of 12,800+ pilots to ultimately achieve an outcome. The outcome is for you, the Delta pilots, to decide. The outcome has always been and will always be left in the hands of the individual pilot. That is the true beauty of this process. You and your family will be the ultimate arbiter of this TA.

I mentioned earlier that it’s easy to weigh this TA in a vacuum. Unfortunately for us, we don’t operate our aircraft in a vacuum, and Delta doesn’t execute its business plan in a vacuum. By understanding our environment and the challenges we face, it makes weighing the TA much more complex. That will be a discussion for next time.

There is a reason the C66 pilots of Delta Air Lines are the most professional. I ask that you use your professionalism and crew resource management skills when evaluating this TA. Expand your team, avail yourself of the resources we will be providing, and exercise good situational awareness.

Thank you,

Dave


Ok, this guy needs to be sent home.

Vote no!
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Old 06-11-2015, 01:32 PM
  #7798  
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there should of been nothing in this TA that went backwards, nothing! I can see status quo on a few things but in this environment it should of been a huge push forward. But, they give us this. No way. Think twice under this contract to call in sick. It states a third party can evaluate you at any time. Who is that? Delta doctor, shrink. Pilot firing review board? C2012 I'll keep until this TA is fixed. NO NO NO!!

Last edited by MOTOJOE; 06-11-2015 at 01:53 PM.
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Old 06-11-2015, 01:35 PM
  #7799  
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Getting to YES:

1. Send out surveys. Make the membership feel like their voice will be heard. Keep all info secretly locked away behind closed doors. Hide behind NDA.
2. The info that does leak, tell everyone those are just rumors...never allow the troops to rally which could put pressure on the turd while it's being formed.
3. Assure everyone things are "on time, on target and historic". Use words like "at risk" in preparation to do the opposite of what they have instructed through surveys.
4. Release a list of well spun "positives". Leave out all negatives.
5. Leave little time for dissent between the release of "positive list" and council vote. Compress where possible.
6.Crush any negative flow of information (wipe clean and censor FB and other venues).
7. With a tag line of "the membership needs to have their voice heard" ignoring the point of having reps in the first place get a majority rep vote in under 48 hours from when membership realizes rumors were mostly true and it's a POS.
8. Spend over a million $ in dues money on Dog and pony shows. Sprinkle with smoke and mirrors. Emphasize "last and best, no plan B, we will get put on ice, next offer worse....Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt!"
10. Capture the vote by any means possible.

10.5 (Bonus) Tell everybody to "shut the he11 up and quit complaining, they voted for it!
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Old 06-11-2015, 01:36 PM
  #7800  
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Originally Posted by Superdad
June 11, 2015
(pdf is attached as a viewing option)

Council 66 pilots,

After 10 long and arduous meetings and hundreds of hours of debate, direction, debate, redirection, and debate, the Delta MEC has approved the TA for membership ratification. Achieving this TA was not easy. The expedited timeline in no way diminishes the work and dedication that has been put into this process. We accomplished in six months what other carriers take three years to achieve.

My goal is to provide the Council 66 pilots with my perspective of the process, the facts of the TA, and to shed light on the debates we had at the MEC level. Instead of inundating you with pages of information, I plan to release a number of shorter updates to keep the discussion and debate ongoing.

I would humbly ask that we all evaluate the TA calmly and professionally. Do not allow yourself to fall prey to emotion and diatribe. There will be a tremendous amount of information coming your way. Please take the time to educate yourselves as much as possible on the TA. Read the information that the Association sends you, go to road shows, and call and e-mail your reps. Take the time to visit with your reps and P2P volunteers in the lounge. Engage and interact.

At the beginning of this process Delta MEC chairman Captain Mike Donatelli promised the Delta pilots a historic contract. I believe he made good on his promise. The proposed 2017 and 2018 pay rates put the Delta pilots above the high water marks of both carrier’s previous rates. This rate is 3.78% above the Delta C2K rates in 2004 and 23.7% above the Northwest bridge agreement rates in 2003. This does not include any profit sharing. The TA proposed pay rates have four captain category aircraft rates above $300 an hour. The smallest category captain rate is north of $200 dollars an hour. This contract achieves restoration. The pay rates for captains exceed the combined captain and first officer rates from just 10 years ago. The pay rates achieved in this TA have never been seen by this pilot group, or our peers for that matter. This TA brings the EMB190 aircraft to mainline Delta. This TA does not only pay Delta pilots the highest rates in the industry, but does so with a healthy margin.

Is that margin “healthy” enough for some? There are those who will say “no.” There are those who will say “yes,” and there is a wide middle ground who will say “I’m not quite sure.” This debate and internal struggle was played out over and over and over again at the MEC. No representative came to this decision lightly or easily. In fact, I am more proud than ever to wear the uniform of a Delta pilot after personally witnessing the process play out. I specifically said the process and not the outcome. The process was a year’s worth of work, mapped, planned, and executed. The process was vigorous and rigorous debate. The process allowed 19 status reps with the backing of 12,800+ pilots to ultimately achieve an outcome. The outcome is for you, the Delta pilots, to decide. The outcome has always been and will always be left in the hands of the individual pilot. That is the true beauty of this process. You and your family will be the ultimate arbiter of this TA.

I mentioned earlier that it’s easy to weigh this TA in a vacuum. Unfortunately for us, we don’t operate our aircraft in a vacuum, and Delta doesn’t execute its business plan in a vacuum. By understanding our environment and the challenges we face, it makes weighing the TA much more complex. That will be a discussion for next time.

There is a reason the C66 pilots of Delta Air Lines are the most professional. I ask that you use your professionalism and crew resource management skills when evaluating this TA. Expand your team, avail yourself of the resources we will be providing, and exercise good situational awareness.

Thank you,

Dave


Ok, this guy needs to be sent home.

Vote no!
didn't he vote no?
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