Details on Delta TA
06-11-2015, 12:14 PM
#7781
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: undefined
Posts: 328
THats what most said in C2012 but it passed. How?? Well, Either the
#1) memrat voting is corrupt
or
#2) the MEC spin machine is so good it can sell 60%+ of 12500 pilots.
IF #2) then why cant they sell management on restoration plus inflation? Kind of strange, dont you think?
TEN
#1) memrat voting is corrupt
or
#2) the MEC spin machine is so good it can sell 60%+ of 12500 pilots.
IF #2) then why cant they sell management on restoration plus inflation? Kind of strange, dont you think?
TEN
06-11-2015, 12:24 PM
#7782
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 29
What about the TVM of the pilots turning down this TA, waiting for a better deal (even if it's months down the road) and having a higher platform to begin negotiations on the next contract? ALPA talks about the upside to taking a mediocre deal early but never the downside, which is a lower reference point for next time around.
06-11-2015, 12:26 PM
#7783
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Position: MD88/90 CA
Posts: 48
THats what most said in C2012 but it passed. How?? Well, Either the
#1) memrat voting is corrupt
or
#2) the MEC spin machine is so good it can sell 60%+ of 12500 pilots.
IF #2) then why cant they sell management on restoration plus inflation? Kind of strange, dont you think?
TEN
#1) memrat voting is corrupt
or
#2) the MEC spin machine is so good it can sell 60%+ of 12500 pilots.
IF #2) then why cant they sell management on restoration plus inflation? Kind of strange, dont you think?
TEN
I'm the swing voter that they need to pass this. It's not going to happen this time. The overreach is so dramatic, given the industry environment, that even with corrupt voting, this will fail.
It was said that management made clear that they expected concessions in sick leave. Well, we could have made clear that we expected a 33% raise, effective immediately (33/15.5/8/8).
It's an OPENER. You don't have to GIVE it to them.
We rushed to an agreement on THEIR timeline, not OURS.
Mike D...."We fired all of our bullets..." Really? 6 months before the amendable date?
The big question, though, is WHY?
06-11-2015, 12:27 PM
#7784
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Posts: 463
The comments section under this Barron's article are surprisingly unified. Have the investors not shown up yet?
Delta Air Lines: ?When Two Sides Want Something?? - Stocks to Watch - Barrons.com
Melba Toast wrote:
Paying for your own raises via reduced profit sharing? Wow, quite the deal.
jerry wrote:
Toast I think your burnt. The increase in pilot pay is huge. Delta has paid its people better than all airlines with rare short exceptions. The amount they will save from reducing the profit sharing only if there earnings a very will help them with a small amount of the costs. Even with that in the contract there profit sharing plan is the best in the World. They are creating many new pilot positions as they did with there last pilot contract.
coffeecake wrote:
The approval of this by the pilots is far from assured. In fact, it is more likely to be rejected.
anonymous wrote:
This is a concessionary contract and will be rejected.
Disappointed wrote:
This contract is unacceptable. The concept that the pay increases need to be cost neutral especially after the concessions made to retirement in previous contracts.
Michael wrote:
A clear failure on the unions part to achieve a contract worthy of passing. Pay raises offset by profit sharing was not what the pilots wanted. This will probably fail at the membership level.
Descension in the pilot ranks and a potential competing new in house union could make for some unstable times.
Kenergy wrote:
This Tentative Agreement is only the illusion of a pay raise.
Anonymous wrote:
@Jerry....what are you talking about! Think, then type in plain language.
btw, the pilot positions are being created by massive retirements, Delta is loosing wide body aircraft faster than they are acquiring them and don't forget seat progression into larger aircraft is all part of a profession that has a MANDATORY retirement age of 65. You can turn a wrench or work customer service till you die....
tom johnson wrote:
Where are all the anti union types claiming the pilots union is bankrupting another company and that compromise between owners and employees is impossible?
Ron Allen wrote:
@Jerry....what are you talking about! Think, then type in plain language.
btw, the pilot positions are being created by massive retirements, Delta is loosing wide body aircraft faster than they are acquiring them and don't forget seat progression into larger aircraft is all part of a profession that has a MANDATORY retirement age of 65. You can turn a wrench or work customer service till you die....
Big Dog wrote:
This will never pass the union vote. Pilot wages are still lower than 10 years ago AND the company eliminated pilot pensions. Only group to lose pension.
Delta Air Lines: ?When Two Sides Want Something?? - Stocks to Watch - Barrons.com
Melba Toast wrote:
Paying for your own raises via reduced profit sharing? Wow, quite the deal.
jerry wrote:
Toast I think your burnt. The increase in pilot pay is huge. Delta has paid its people better than all airlines with rare short exceptions. The amount they will save from reducing the profit sharing only if there earnings a very will help them with a small amount of the costs. Even with that in the contract there profit sharing plan is the best in the World. They are creating many new pilot positions as they did with there last pilot contract.
coffeecake wrote:
The approval of this by the pilots is far from assured. In fact, it is more likely to be rejected.
anonymous wrote:
This is a concessionary contract and will be rejected.
Disappointed wrote:
This contract is unacceptable. The concept that the pay increases need to be cost neutral especially after the concessions made to retirement in previous contracts.
Michael wrote:
A clear failure on the unions part to achieve a contract worthy of passing. Pay raises offset by profit sharing was not what the pilots wanted. This will probably fail at the membership level.
Descension in the pilot ranks and a potential competing new in house union could make for some unstable times.
Kenergy wrote:
This Tentative Agreement is only the illusion of a pay raise.
Anonymous wrote:
@Jerry....what are you talking about! Think, then type in plain language.
btw, the pilot positions are being created by massive retirements, Delta is loosing wide body aircraft faster than they are acquiring them and don't forget seat progression into larger aircraft is all part of a profession that has a MANDATORY retirement age of 65. You can turn a wrench or work customer service till you die....
tom johnson wrote:
Where are all the anti union types claiming the pilots union is bankrupting another company and that compromise between owners and employees is impossible?
Ron Allen wrote:
@Jerry....what are you talking about! Think, then type in plain language.
btw, the pilot positions are being created by massive retirements, Delta is loosing wide body aircraft faster than they are acquiring them and don't forget seat progression into larger aircraft is all part of a profession that has a MANDATORY retirement age of 65. You can turn a wrench or work customer service till you die....
Big Dog wrote:
This will never pass the union vote. Pilot wages are still lower than 10 years ago AND the company eliminated pilot pensions. Only group to lose pension.
06-11-2015, 12:28 PM
#7785
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: undefined
Posts: 328
06-11-2015, 12:31 PM
#7786
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 34
The fact that some of the MEC are taking the approach of let the pilots decide by letting them vote is a negotiating blunder. If it passes the company will be snickering under there breath at us. If it fails they will know the percentages and know how much more they need to give (or at least have a very good guess). The union really dropped the ball on this one. This needs do go down by a wide margin so both the company and the union get the message.
06-11-2015, 12:41 PM
#7789
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: 7ERB
Posts: 2,039
Ten, I was a yes voter on C2012. So maybe it's my own fault that I'm staring at this nonsensical agreement.
I'm the swing voter that they need to pass this. It's not going to happen this time. The overreach is so dramatic, given the industry environment, that even with corrupt voting, this will fail.
It was said that management made clear that they expected concessions in sick leave. Well, we could have made clear that we expected a 33% raise, effective immediately (33/15.5/8/8).
It's an OPENER. You don't have to GIVE it to them.
We rushed to an agreement on THEIR timeline, not OURS.
Mike D...."We fired all of our bullets..." Really? 6 months before the amendable date?
The big question, though, is WHY?
I'm the swing voter that they need to pass this. It's not going to happen this time. The overreach is so dramatic, given the industry environment, that even with corrupt voting, this will fail.
It was said that management made clear that they expected concessions in sick leave. Well, we could have made clear that we expected a 33% raise, effective immediately (33/15.5/8/8).
It's an OPENER. You don't have to GIVE it to them.
We rushed to an agreement on THEIR timeline, not OURS.
Mike D...."We fired all of our bullets..." Really? 6 months before the amendable date?
The big question, though, is WHY?
TEN
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