Details on Delta TA
06-11-2015, 11:10 AM
#7761
Straight QOL, homie
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator
Posts: 4,202
06-11-2015, 11:10 AM
#7762
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 341
I am sensitive to these issues.
And I felt the same in 2012.
On a personal level I thought it was highly inappropriate for the company to announce airplanes the day we pushed the TA out for MEMRAT.
There was no talk about that in the debate over the TA. Other in generalities with regards to new 195 rates. And I think it makes it look like a stick and carrot proposition and that DALPA and the company are working together.
Amazingly, that isn't the case. I know. It seems incredible. But it isn't. It looks suspect though to me if I didn't know better.
I encourage everyone to up or down vote the contract on its own accord. I also encourage everyone to talk to contemporaries and other airlines to verify the data you have been presented.
But remember that this should be a business decision for you and your family. This isn't an insult or an affront to your humanity. It may feel that way. I get it.
But it's a contract. If we all hate it. We say no and move on.
If we like it we pass it and move on and all get to do this again in 36 months.
And I felt the same in 2012.
On a personal level I thought it was highly inappropriate for the company to announce airplanes the day we pushed the TA out for MEMRAT.
There was no talk about that in the debate over the TA. Other in generalities with regards to new 195 rates. And I think it makes it look like a stick and carrot proposition and that DALPA and the company are working together.
Amazingly, that isn't the case. I know. It seems incredible. But it isn't. It looks suspect though to me if I didn't know better.
I encourage everyone to up or down vote the contract on its own accord. I also encourage everyone to talk to contemporaries and other airlines to verify the data you have been presented.
But remember that this should be a business decision for you and your family. This isn't an insult or an affront to your humanity. It may feel that way. I get it.
But it's a contract. If we all hate it. We say no and move on.
If we like it we pass it and move on and all get to do this again in 36 months.
06-11-2015, 11:11 AM
#7763
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
I am sensitive to these issues.
And I felt the same in 2012.
On a personal level I thought it was highly inappropriate for the company to announce airplanes the day we pushed the TA out for MEMRAT.
There was no talk about that in the debate over the TA. And I think it makes it look like a stick and carrot proposition and that DALPA and the company are working together.
Amazingly, that isn't the case. I know. It seems incredible. But it isn't. It looks suspect though to me if I didn't know better.
I encourage everyone to up or down vote the contract on its own accord. I also encourage everyone to talk to contemporaries and other airlines to verify the data you have been presented.
But remember that this should be a business decision for you and your family. This isn't an insult or an affront to your humanity. It may feel that way. I get it.
But it's a contract. If we all hate it. We say no and move on.
If we like it we pass it and move on and all get to do this again in 36 months.
And I felt the same in 2012.
On a personal level I thought it was highly inappropriate for the company to announce airplanes the day we pushed the TA out for MEMRAT.
There was no talk about that in the debate over the TA. And I think it makes it look like a stick and carrot proposition and that DALPA and the company are working together.
Amazingly, that isn't the case. I know. It seems incredible. But it isn't. It looks suspect though to me if I didn't know better.
I encourage everyone to up or down vote the contract on its own accord. I also encourage everyone to talk to contemporaries and other airlines to verify the data you have been presented.
But remember that this should be a business decision for you and your family. This isn't an insult or an affront to your humanity. It may feel that way. I get it.
But it's a contract. If we all hate it. We say no and move on.
If we like it we pass it and move on and all get to do this again in 36 months.
I apologize for my earlier slam on you. Please just stay honest and factual, not spinning sunshine and rainbows.
There is no possible way, in my business decision calculus, that I could be convinced to vote yes for this.
This is an insult, on that we do disagree.
06-11-2015, 11:26 AM
#7767
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,235
As always, I could be wrong.
Either way, this deal is bad for pilots! Voting NO.
06-11-2015, 11:34 AM
#7768
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,994
June 11, 2015
(pdf is attached as a viewing option)
Contract 2015 Chairman’s Update #1
Fellow pilots of Council 66,
The MEC voted on the TA in open session yesterday in Atlanta. As you may know by now, the result of the TA vote was 11 for and 8 against. Both NYC reps voted against the TA. It will now proceed to membership ratification, where you will be the final arbiters. More on that soon.
Below is a transcript of the speech that I made to the MEC yesterday during open session. This will provide you a brief look at my reasoning for voting “No.” I recognize that there is a thirst for information, and we will follow up very shortly with more background for you. In addition to information from your reps, you can count on the Delta MEC administration to provide you with a wealth of information at https://dal.alpa.org. As always, feel free to reach out to me, Chris, or Dave, with your thoughts and concerns.
“Ladies and gentlemen, members of the MEC, and MEC administration,
“I would like to thank the negotiators, the MEC administration, the attorneys, subject-matter experts, and everyone involved in the effort put forth thus far in crafting the TA before us.
“Never in the last 42 years that I have been piloting commercial aircraft have I witnessed a greater spread between the economic climate in which we found ourselves and the resulting agreement. And, that most certainly includes our pre- and post-bankruptcy concessionary contracts.
“We are highly skilled, mission-oriented pilots. We are, in my estimation and the company’s as well, the finest pilots on the planet. Our hard work should be rewarding us, not demanding that we be granting the company relief. We have before us the best negotiating environment in our careers; multiple record-breaking profits; incredibly high load factors. The timing is right for an historic contract. We raised expectations, sure, in our opener and in our communications—are we guilty of over-promising and under-delivering? I’ll leave that up to you to decide.
“The pilots of Delta Air Lines have spoken loudly to us—in crew lounges, at meetings, in multiple surveys and out flying the line. These pilots have given greatly to save this airline, and they have told us loud and clear that now is the time for payback.
“But perhaps we are missing the point.
“This agreement isn’t about money or scope or sick leave. This agreement is about respect. Respect from the company and self-respect for ourselves. Agreeing to this TA means we accept the notion that management has little respect for our past sacrifices and the professional job we do day in and day out. Agreeing to this TA means we have lost our own self-respect for our skills and dedication. We will chase a pay rate, and abandon benefits and quality of life, just to get to that shiny number. And frankly, the pay rate ain’t all that shiny.
“Look closely at this agreement. The devil is in the details.
“With great thanks for all those involved in its crafting, my belief is that accepting a TA that is marginal at best will haunt us for years to come. It’s time we stopped bluffing. Management has overreached, and we must not validate their overreach. In good faith to both the pilots I represent and all the pilots of Delta Air Lines, I must vote ‘No’ on this TA.
“I vowed to follow a clear process from the start. In keeping with that promise, I can’t accept a TA that clearly does not meet the mandate of this pilot group. The pilots’ mandate and the direction given to the negotiators never included making drastic sacrifices to important sections of our contract during such prosperous times.
“For those around the horseshoe who want to reject it but plan to pass it along to the pilots to ‘let them decide,’ I ask, ‘What purpose do you serve? Why have an MEC?’
“This body’s credibility is at stake every time we forward a TA to our fellow pilots. We are the first arbiters after the negotiators and must not abdicate our solemn duty.
“This TA should sell itself, and common sense says it cannot. It under-delivers. It would take a full court press, with a very slim chance of getting this thing across the finish line. It shouldn’t be so. It must not be so.
“Thank you for the privilege of addressing you.”
Respectfully,
Chairman
Council 66
[email]
“Member Driven”
Air Line Pilots Association, International
ALPA - Home
(pdf is attached as a viewing option)
Contract 2015 Chairman’s Update #1
Fellow pilots of Council 66,
The MEC voted on the TA in open session yesterday in Atlanta. As you may know by now, the result of the TA vote was 11 for and 8 against. Both NYC reps voted against the TA. It will now proceed to membership ratification, where you will be the final arbiters. More on that soon.
Below is a transcript of the speech that I made to the MEC yesterday during open session. This will provide you a brief look at my reasoning for voting “No.” I recognize that there is a thirst for information, and we will follow up very shortly with more background for you. In addition to information from your reps, you can count on the Delta MEC administration to provide you with a wealth of information at https://dal.alpa.org. As always, feel free to reach out to me, Chris, or Dave, with your thoughts and concerns.
“Ladies and gentlemen, members of the MEC, and MEC administration,
“I would like to thank the negotiators, the MEC administration, the attorneys, subject-matter experts, and everyone involved in the effort put forth thus far in crafting the TA before us.
“Never in the last 42 years that I have been piloting commercial aircraft have I witnessed a greater spread between the economic climate in which we found ourselves and the resulting agreement. And, that most certainly includes our pre- and post-bankruptcy concessionary contracts.
“We are highly skilled, mission-oriented pilots. We are, in my estimation and the company’s as well, the finest pilots on the planet. Our hard work should be rewarding us, not demanding that we be granting the company relief. We have before us the best negotiating environment in our careers; multiple record-breaking profits; incredibly high load factors. The timing is right for an historic contract. We raised expectations, sure, in our opener and in our communications—are we guilty of over-promising and under-delivering? I’ll leave that up to you to decide.
“The pilots of Delta Air Lines have spoken loudly to us—in crew lounges, at meetings, in multiple surveys and out flying the line. These pilots have given greatly to save this airline, and they have told us loud and clear that now is the time for payback.
“But perhaps we are missing the point.
“This agreement isn’t about money or scope or sick leave. This agreement is about respect. Respect from the company and self-respect for ourselves. Agreeing to this TA means we accept the notion that management has little respect for our past sacrifices and the professional job we do day in and day out. Agreeing to this TA means we have lost our own self-respect for our skills and dedication. We will chase a pay rate, and abandon benefits and quality of life, just to get to that shiny number. And frankly, the pay rate ain’t all that shiny.
“Look closely at this agreement. The devil is in the details.
“With great thanks for all those involved in its crafting, my belief is that accepting a TA that is marginal at best will haunt us for years to come. It’s time we stopped bluffing. Management has overreached, and we must not validate their overreach. In good faith to both the pilots I represent and all the pilots of Delta Air Lines, I must vote ‘No’ on this TA.
“I vowed to follow a clear process from the start. In keeping with that promise, I can’t accept a TA that clearly does not meet the mandate of this pilot group. The pilots’ mandate and the direction given to the negotiators never included making drastic sacrifices to important sections of our contract during such prosperous times.
“For those around the horseshoe who want to reject it but plan to pass it along to the pilots to ‘let them decide,’ I ask, ‘What purpose do you serve? Why have an MEC?’
“This body’s credibility is at stake every time we forward a TA to our fellow pilots. We are the first arbiters after the negotiators and must not abdicate our solemn duty.
“This TA should sell itself, and common sense says it cannot. It under-delivers. It would take a full court press, with a very slim chance of getting this thing across the finish line. It shouldn’t be so. It must not be so.
“Thank you for the privilege of addressing you.”
Respectfully,
Chairman
Council 66
[email]
“Member Driven”
Air Line Pilots Association, International
ALPA - Home
06-11-2015, 11:37 AM
#7769
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: 5-9 block, kill removing
Posts: 385
MEC says it shut it down as it grew closer to a vote. I don't think that's true. All the comments came AFTER the vote and AFTER the highlights email went out.
It seems it only got shutdown after "lotsa" scathing comments.
Not exactly "accurate" on their part. I'll withhold judgement on "truthfulness".
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