Details on Delta TA
06-10-2015, 06:09 PM
#7543
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,544
Does it convert to block hours though? Or does it just allow 50/50 block hours? Because that's how it was written, which would mean a significant and immediate loss of widebody jobs that we'd never get back.
Even if it "converted" to block hours, that still sets the stage for a significant permanent majority of AF/KLM EASK's from now on. If it guts our current block hour premium and allows an immediate 50/50 split (really a 49/51 split…) then we're really getting hosed. Who would EVER agree to this and why?
06-10-2015, 06:10 PM
#7544
veut gagner ŕ la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
06-10-2015, 06:11 PM
#7545
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2012
Position: 7ER Costar
Posts: 406
Very telling that the usual "yes" crowd's message during this was wait and see instead of defending. The half dozen pilots I have talked to recently varied from "NO" to "the rates looked ok but haven't seen the details".
06-10-2015, 06:14 PM
#7546
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2015
Posts: 105
Credit Suisse noted that the fixed increase of 15% by the amendable date is slightly more than it expected, but the profit sharing offset is more significant at this point. With the 20% profit sharing threshold moving to $6 billion for all employees, the firm expects approximately $500 million of potential savings, compared to $2.5 billion of threshold. The firm believes that this will be large enough saving to offset the fixed increase of 15% for pilots, giving extra cost of approximately $400 million.
2. Loss of Profit Sharing/buying our own raise. What's the company's predicted profit for the next three years? Also tweaking how PS is calculated will lower the amount
3. 3.b.4 will surely be triggered again and we will probably get around a 3% raise (a guess on my part)
4. 75% of LCA trips pulled out affects every FO in that category not just 180
5. More large RJ to DCI
6. JV metric changed to block hours from EASK's and lowered.
7. Only 1% to DC plan and that not until 2017
8. 5 to 10 cents more on per diem, puhleeze
9. Sick leave debacle. Third party verification? Not good if true
10. Vacation and training only adding 15 minutes a day?
11. New hire training freeze now 24 months? Throw the new hire under the bus
These off the top of my head......
Denny
3. 3.b.4 will surely be triggered again and we will probably get around a 3% raise (a guess on my part)
4. 75% of LCA trips pulled out affects every FO in that category not just 180
5. More large RJ to DCI
6. JV metric changed to block hours from EASK's and lowered.
7. Only 1% to DC plan and that not until 2017
8. 5 to 10 cents more on per diem, puhleeze
9. Sick leave debacle. Third party verification? Not good if true
10. Vacation and training only adding 15 minutes a day?
11. New hire training freeze now 24 months? Throw the new hire under the bus
These off the top of my head......
Denny
06-10-2015, 06:20 PM
#7548
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,994
This thread really is like watching a train wreck, only it's all been recorded...post 3073 picks up in December of 2014 if any of you want to relive this unfolding disaster. Pre-release expectations and discussions really put the actual TA in perspective.
06-10-2015, 06:20 PM
#7549
veut gagner ŕ la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Really? Which part of this article said that:
Credit Suisse noted that the fixed increase of 15% by the amendable date is slightly more than it expected, but the profit sharing offset is more significant at this point. With the 20% profit sharing threshold moving to $6 billion for all employees, the firm expects approximately $500 million of potential savings, compared to $2.5 billion of threshold. The firm believes that this will be large enough saving to offset the fixed increase of 15% for pilots, giving extra cost of approximately $400 million.
So, ALPA puts out a list of approximately 60 improvements, and your counter is 11 "cons" of which 2 aren't even true and 3 are actually improvements
Credit Suisse noted that the fixed increase of 15% by the amendable date is slightly more than it expected, but the profit sharing offset is more significant at this point. With the 20% profit sharing threshold moving to $6 billion for all employees, the firm expects approximately $500 million of potential savings, compared to $2.5 billion of threshold. The firm believes that this will be large enough saving to offset the fixed increase of 15% for pilots, giving extra cost of approximately $400 million.
So, ALPA puts out a list of approximately 60 improvements, and your counter is 11 "cons" of which 2 aren't even true and 3 are actually improvements
Even if it was a wash, now add in the cost of concessions.
06-10-2015, 06:20 PM
#7550
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2011
Position: 73na
Posts: 27
Ok, here is a quick list why this turd should be rejected. Feel free to ad to it:
1. Credit Suisse article showing its actually putting money in the company's pocket every year
2. Loss of Profit Sharing/buying our own raise. What's the company's predicted profit for the next three years? Also tweaking how PS is calculated will lower the amount
3. 3.b.4 will surely be triggered again and we will probably get around a 3% raise (a guess on my part)
4. 75% of LCA trips pulled out affects every FO in that category not just 180
5. More large RJ to DCI
6. JV metric changed to block hours from EASK's and lowered.
7. Only 1% to DC plan and that not until 2017
8. 5 to 10 cents more on per diem, puhleeze
9. Sick leave debacle. Third party verification? Not good if true
10. Vacation and training only adding 15 minutes a day?
11. New hire training freeze now 24 months? Throw the new hire under the bus
These off the top of my head......
Denny
1. Credit Suisse article showing its actually putting money in the company's pocket every year
2. Loss of Profit Sharing/buying our own raise. What's the company's predicted profit for the next three years? Also tweaking how PS is calculated will lower the amount
3. 3.b.4 will surely be triggered again and we will probably get around a 3% raise (a guess on my part)
4. 75% of LCA trips pulled out affects every FO in that category not just 180
5. More large RJ to DCI
6. JV metric changed to block hours from EASK's and lowered.
7. Only 1% to DC plan and that not until 2017
8. 5 to 10 cents more on per diem, puhleeze
9. Sick leave debacle. Third party verification? Not good if true
10. Vacation and training only adding 15 minutes a day?
11. New hire training freeze now 24 months? Throw the new hire under the bus
These off the top of my head......
Denny
In the alternative (referring to that mystical NMB land that time forgot), I believe management needs force them to crack first. I think more pilots are comfortable (relatively speaking when considering this POS) under current conditions. Management, with their fleet plan diversity, staffing issues, outsourcing imperatives, outside investor pressure and looming pilot retirements, just to name a few, have way too many irons in the fire to stand pat - they'll need to make a deal. Just my view from the cheap seats - back to lurk only mode.
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