Details on Delta TA
08-21-2014, 06:42 AM
#692
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Win for FTB! Already in the PWA:
5.E.10. A pilot scheduled for a layover of more than 12 hours (block-to-block) will receive lodging at a downtown hotel.
Exception one: Such lodging may be provided at a hotel in the vicinity of the airport if the MEC Hotel Committee has approved the use of such hotel in connection with the layover.
(bold mine)
The MEC Hotel Committee Chairman has met with DAL Flt Ops Mgt and changed min layover times for designated cities for this reason. (after making the recommendations to the MEC and getting direction/permission to pursue said changes)
5.E.10. A pilot scheduled for a layover of more than 12 hours (block-to-block) will receive lodging at a downtown hotel.
Exception one: Such lodging may be provided at a hotel in the vicinity of the airport if the MEC Hotel Committee has approved the use of such hotel in connection with the layover.
(bold mine)
The MEC Hotel Committee Chairman has met with DAL Flt Ops Mgt and changed min layover times for designated cities for this reason. (after making the recommendations to the MEC and getting direction/permission to pursue said changes)
Yeah I saw that (the bold) and I get it with respect to NYC, but it kind of doesn't explain why we stay at some of these other places. The reason we were told for years we wouldn't go to downtown JAN was because it wasn't safe, well, we're back to downtown.
I guess, how does it work? I've heard conflicting stories supposedly of how hotels get chosen and I'm kind of curious. Can ALPA say you're not putting our crews in these locations or is that solely up to the company until the company decides on a non-downtown location then ALPA must approve?
It seems like everything is oriented to finding a downtown even if it is the most illogical choice you could make. PHF was a great example. Across the road basically from the airport is the largest/safest/best mall in the area and packed with the typical ancillary stuff surrounding it, but, contract says downtown so off they went to a dump somewhere near Williamsburg- but not really. Then when crews complained they decided to go find another downtown and decided on the not so safe and nearly dead downtown in my hometown of Hampton, which is a half hour away. To get there you passed two major commercial shopping areas.
ASA and AirTran crews meanwhile drove across the street and were better off in every way. It's something I see in some locations where you pass decent locals and safe areas to drive to a dead downtown nobody goes too, except it has this one bar, maybe, sometimes open, otherwise you have the hotel restaurant and 15% off.
I would like to see the downtown requirement stricken except for those locations where ALPA says we must be downtown (SFO, BOS, ORD/MDW, NYC, etc) and those need to be cemented into the contract so they don't ever change.
08-21-2014, 06:51 AM
#693
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,108
Is the 12% assuming we do not take a reduction in profit sharing?
Jerry
08-21-2014, 07:01 AM
#694
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
And profit sharing is off the table as far as I am concerned. And it is 12% DOS. After that I vote for a CPI indexed pay increase + a small raise each year
Oh... and fire away. This should be really good......
08-21-2014, 07:04 AM
#695
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
I win.
Yeah I saw that (the bold) and I get it with respect to NYC, but it kind of doesn't explain why we stay at some of these other places. The reason we were told for years we wouldn't go to downtown JAN was because it wasn't safe, well, we're back to downtown.
I guess, how does it work? I've heard conflicting stories supposedly of how hotels get chosen and I'm kind of curious. Can ALPA say you're not putting our crews in these locations or is that solely up to the company until the company decides on a non-downtown location then ALPA must approve?
It seems like everything is oriented to finding a downtown even if it is the most illogical choice you could make. PHF was a great example. Across the road basically from the airport is the largest/safest/best mall in the area and packed with the typical ancillary stuff surrounding it, but, contract says downtown so off they went to a dump somewhere near Williamsburg- but not really. Then when crews complained they decided to go find another downtown and decided on the not so safe and nearly dead downtown in my hometown of Hampton, which is a half hour away. To get there you passed two major commercial shopping areas.
ASA and AirTran crews meanwhile drove across the street and were better off in every way. It's something I see in some locations where you pass decent locals and safe areas to drive to a dead downtown nobody goes too, except it has this one bar, maybe, sometimes open, otherwise you have the hotel restaurant and 15% off.
I would like to see the downtown requirement stricken except for those locations where ALPA says we must be downtown (SFO, BOS, ORD/MDW, NYC, etc) and those need to be cemented into the contract so they don't ever change.
Yeah I saw that (the bold) and I get it with respect to NYC, but it kind of doesn't explain why we stay at some of these other places. The reason we were told for years we wouldn't go to downtown JAN was because it wasn't safe, well, we're back to downtown.
I guess, how does it work? I've heard conflicting stories supposedly of how hotels get chosen and I'm kind of curious. Can ALPA say you're not putting our crews in these locations or is that solely up to the company until the company decides on a non-downtown location then ALPA must approve?
It seems like everything is oriented to finding a downtown even if it is the most illogical choice you could make. PHF was a great example. Across the road basically from the airport is the largest/safest/best mall in the area and packed with the typical ancillary stuff surrounding it, but, contract says downtown so off they went to a dump somewhere near Williamsburg- but not really. Then when crews complained they decided to go find another downtown and decided on the not so safe and nearly dead downtown in my hometown of Hampton, which is a half hour away. To get there you passed two major commercial shopping areas.
ASA and AirTran crews meanwhile drove across the street and were better off in every way. It's something I see in some locations where you pass decent locals and safe areas to drive to a dead downtown nobody goes too, except it has this one bar, maybe, sometimes open, otherwise you have the hotel restaurant and 15% off.
I would like to see the downtown requirement stricken except for those locations where ALPA says we must be downtown (SFO, BOS, ORD/MDW, NYC, etc) and those need to be cemented into the contract so they don't ever change.
So actually in a way, I agree with you.
And Auburn still sucks.
Last edited by tsquare; 08-21-2014 at 07:24 AM.
08-21-2014, 09:07 AM
#696
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 757/767
Posts: 588
I win.
Yeah I saw that (the bold) and I get it with respect to NYC, but it kind of doesn't explain why we stay at some of these other places. The reason we were told for years we wouldn't go to downtown JAN was because it wasn't safe, well, we're back to downtown.
I guess, how does it work? I've heard conflicting stories supposedly of how hotels get chosen and I'm kind of curious. Can ALPA say you're not putting our crews in these locations or is that solely up to the company until the company decides on a non-downtown location then ALPA must approve?
It seems like everything is oriented to finding a downtown even if it is the most illogical choice you could make. PHF was a great example. Across the road basically from the airport is the largest/safest/best mall in the area and packed with the typical ancillary stuff surrounding it, but, contract says downtown so off they went to a dump somewhere near Williamsburg- but not really. Then when crews complained they decided to go find another downtown and decided on the not so safe and nearly dead downtown in my hometown of Hampton, which is a half hour away. To get there you passed two major commercial shopping areas.
ASA and AirTran crews meanwhile drove across the street and were better off in every way. It's something I see in some locations where you pass decent locals and safe areas to drive to a dead downtown nobody goes too, except it has this one bar, maybe, sometimes open, otherwise you have the hotel restaurant and 15% off.
I would like to see the downtown requirement stricken except for those locations where ALPA says we must be downtown (SFO, BOS, ORD/MDW, NYC, etc) and those need to be cemented into the contract so they don't ever change.
Yeah I saw that (the bold) and I get it with respect to NYC, but it kind of doesn't explain why we stay at some of these other places. The reason we were told for years we wouldn't go to downtown JAN was because it wasn't safe, well, we're back to downtown.
I guess, how does it work? I've heard conflicting stories supposedly of how hotels get chosen and I'm kind of curious. Can ALPA say you're not putting our crews in these locations or is that solely up to the company until the company decides on a non-downtown location then ALPA must approve?
It seems like everything is oriented to finding a downtown even if it is the most illogical choice you could make. PHF was a great example. Across the road basically from the airport is the largest/safest/best mall in the area and packed with the typical ancillary stuff surrounding it, but, contract says downtown so off they went to a dump somewhere near Williamsburg- but not really. Then when crews complained they decided to go find another downtown and decided on the not so safe and nearly dead downtown in my hometown of Hampton, which is a half hour away. To get there you passed two major commercial shopping areas.
ASA and AirTran crews meanwhile drove across the street and were better off in every way. It's something I see in some locations where you pass decent locals and safe areas to drive to a dead downtown nobody goes too, except it has this one bar, maybe, sometimes open, otherwise you have the hotel restaurant and 15% off.
I would like to see the downtown requirement stricken except for those locations where ALPA says we must be downtown (SFO, BOS, ORD/MDW, NYC, etc) and those need to be cemented into the contract so they don't ever change.
The biggest difference I have observed between my old company and Delta is the layovers. Domestically, I've been going to pretty much the same places but the layovers are waaaaay better.
There is one certainty when it comes to hotel preferences, no one will agree what is best. I've heard people claim a particular hotel was their favorite while other people claimed the same hotel was their least favorite.
08-21-2014, 09:18 AM
#697
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,599
Being a former regional new hire I have seen the opposite side of this. I'd rather keep the downtown provision in place and work with the company on special circumstances. OMA was one of my favorite layovers while downtown and my absolute least favorite while not downtown. My guess is Delta has better hotel provisions are better than any of my previous companies but the point is, be careful what you wish for.
The biggest difference I have observed between my old company and Delta is the layovers. Domestically, I've been going to pretty much the same places but the layovers are waaaaay better.
There is one certainty when it comes to hotel preferences, no one will agree what is best. I've heard people claim a particular hotel was their favorite while other people claimed the same hotel was their least favorite.
The biggest difference I have observed between my old company and Delta is the layovers. Domestically, I've been going to pretty much the same places but the layovers are waaaaay better.
There is one certainty when it comes to hotel preferences, no one will agree what is best. I've heard people claim a particular hotel was their favorite while other people claimed the same hotel was their least favorite.
08-21-2014, 10:06 AM
#698
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,544
I agree that the downtown language is well intended, and results in some great layovers. As with almost everything, strict parameters usually backfire from time to time. I think where we're at now with the language is pretty good. I'm just concerned that we may have given up some layovers that cost the company money while not getting anything in return.
It costs money to get Manhattan overnights plus transportation compared to closer in stays. When we changed some of those layovers, we provided the company financial relief from previous contract language that we bargained and essentially paid for previously. IMO most of that money should have been redirected back to us immediately.
In any case, we need the flexibility across the network to help pick the best layover locations per hours on the ground. There is no "one size fits all" hourly parameter that is optimal in all cases.
It costs money to get Manhattan overnights plus transportation compared to closer in stays. When we changed some of those layovers, we provided the company financial relief from previous contract language that we bargained and essentially paid for previously. IMO most of that money should have been redirected back to us immediately.
In any case, we need the flexibility across the network to help pick the best layover locations per hours on the ground. There is no "one size fits all" hourly parameter that is optimal in all cases.
08-21-2014, 11:10 AM
#699
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,599
I agree that the downtown language is well intended, and results in some great layovers. As with almost everything, strict parameters usually backfire from time to time. I think where we're at now with the language is pretty good. I'm just concerned that we may have given up some layovers that cost the company money while not getting anything in return.
It costs money to get Manhattan overnights plus transportation compared to closer in stays. When we changed some of those layovers, we provided the company financial relief from previous contract language that we bargained and essentially paid for previously. IMO most of that money should have been redirected back to us immediately.
In any case, we need the flexibility across the network to help pick the best layover locations per hours on the ground. There is no "one size fits all" hourly parameter that is optimal in all cases.
It costs money to get Manhattan overnights plus transportation compared to closer in stays. When we changed some of those layovers, we provided the company financial relief from previous contract language that we bargained and essentially paid for previously. IMO most of that money should have been redirected back to us immediately.
In any case, we need the flexibility across the network to help pick the best layover locations per hours on the ground. There is no "one size fits all" hourly parameter that is optimal in all cases.
Reminds me of short call verses long call. Once we were on short call every day. We negotiated a long call system with management and then pilots started saying short call sucks we should be paid extra for it!
Last edited by sailingfun; 08-21-2014 at 11:30 AM.
08-21-2014, 11:18 AM
#700
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
So we go to the company and tell them pilots don't want 12 to 14 hour layovers downtown in NYC. The company says ok we agree and will fix it. Then we say pay us to fix it!
Reminds me of short call verses long call. Once we were on short call every day. We negotiated a long call system with management and then pilots started sayin short call sucks we should be paid extra for it!
Reminds me of short call verses long call. Once we were on short call every day. We negotiated a long call system with management and then pilots started sayin short call sucks we should be paid extra for it!
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