Details on Delta TA
06-09-2015, 06:48 PM
#6921
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: CRJ200 Capt.
Posts: 822
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS
The goal all along between management and ALPA has been to create a B scale. Calling it a B scale won't work now. So, ALPA and management have gotten together and created much lower pay for the E195 at mainline. It is the same B scale, but it will be sold under the name of "scope recapture".
Once that is the new rate, then the E195 pay can replace most of the domestic market. You will have your new B scale, and the old mainline rate will only apply to trans cons, and international. Everything else can be done by the new E195 rate. No scope will limit it.
Be careful what you wish for....
The goal all along between management and ALPA has been to create a B scale. Calling it a B scale won't work now. So, ALPA and management have gotten together and created much lower pay for the E195 at mainline. It is the same B scale, but it will be sold under the name of "scope recapture".
Once that is the new rate, then the E195 pay can replace most of the domestic market. You will have your new B scale, and the old mainline rate will only apply to trans cons, and international. Everything else can be done by the new E195 rate. No scope will limit it.
Be careful what you wish for....
06-09-2015, 06:51 PM
#6923
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 765-A
Posts: 6,844
(L1011 vs. MD11). Same premise, no?
In response to this....
Post #6823. ???
Last edited by newKnow; 06-09-2015 at 07:04 PM.
06-09-2015, 06:52 PM
#6924
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2013
Position: Utah Chapter
Posts: 391
The LCA carve-out of trips is a horrendous concession in my mind, but it does solve some company problems with the massive OE flood that is on the way for a decade. In some ways, company problems are my problems too. What are some other ways the company can solve this problem?
If I have it right, the FAA requires 25 hours of OE but Delta's policy is 35 (with schedulers scheduling roughly 40). How about we just require the FAA mandate, and schedule no more than 30? Naturally, we leave LCA bidding as is.
Thoughts? Surely there are better ideas, but I haven't heard this discussed much.
If I have it right, the FAA requires 25 hours of OE but Delta's policy is 35 (with schedulers scheduling roughly 40). How about we just require the FAA mandate, and schedule no more than 30? Naturally, we leave LCA bidding as is.
Thoughts? Surely there are better ideas, but I haven't heard this discussed much.
06-09-2015, 06:54 PM
#6925
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2013
Position: On the hotel shuttle
Posts: 5,907
We've heard they wanted profit sharing for quite some time. In this case, the rest of the employees are going to ride our coat tails by losing some PS too. This is huge. The company wants it, so does Wall Street. Shortly after we lose it, non contract will to. That will further go to pay for our pay raises. Cost neutral. Wake up and smell the Jet A.
06-09-2015, 06:55 PM
#6926
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 328
I'm starting to see the genius of this TA. It was never INTENDED to pass. The MEC put an incompetent NC in with the big boys, so management thought they could roll us. That generated a POS TA that really fired up the masses to start paying attention for a change. Next, we put some talented negotiators back in the room and catch management on their heels. Even RA is caught off guard.
Everyone knows the pilots are following round two, and they've learned what they're really worth. A new FEDEX agreement on the street also proves it to them. Wall street starts questioning whether DAL labor risk is REALLY off the table and RA has to prove it is...QUICKLY.
In record time, we have a historic contract. RA accepts the cost of preserving zero labor risk and actually pays it (we're actually pretty cheap compared to massive buy-backs). Wall Street sees a sound investment in Delta pilots who will maximize profits for themselves AND investors and the stock price rises slightly.
Everyone knows the pilots are following round two, and they've learned what they're really worth. A new FEDEX agreement on the street also proves it to them. Wall street starts questioning whether DAL labor risk is REALLY off the table and RA has to prove it is...QUICKLY.
In record time, we have a historic contract. RA accepts the cost of preserving zero labor risk and actually pays it (we're actually pretty cheap compared to massive buy-backs). Wall Street sees a sound investment in Delta pilots who will maximize profits for themselves AND investors and the stock price rises slightly.
Like in a dog-fight....if you think three steps ahead you'll probably win.
Maybe the $ 0.05 increase in per diem was "code" for "we're thinking three steps ahead".
Sadly, I think we're in a Sopwith Camel.
06-09-2015, 07:01 PM
#6927
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Posts: 463
Immaterial. It happened. The real question, why wont our present union allow for a transparent voting process where everybody can see their ballet was tabulated properly/not changed and no unverified votes were added? Why resist this change? So far the excuses don't pass muster. There's a hundred ways this could be administered and still protect privacy. The money to implement to ensure voter confidence would be much better spent than the million DALPA will spend on their "MUST ACT NOW, it's the best we can ever do" campaign.
06-09-2015, 07:02 PM
#6928
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: A320 Left seat
Posts: 2,591
And once again we have SNB aircraft offered up if we give bottom end scope relief for large RJs. Sound familiar?
Why is this even in the TA. If the company wanted/needed E190/195, they would get them. More large RJs....they can barely staff DCI now so of course more large RJs help.
But why not go out and get them on their own? Because they can get us to give up scope to get them.
When the company starts parking A319s, Mad Dogs, and maybe even 717s, at least the guys who finally got here after a decade or more in the regionals can get bumped right back in to the Jungle Jet and do the same kind of flying. I seriously doubt they are
Mainline growth aircraft. They don't belong in this TA.
Why is this even in the TA. If the company wanted/needed E190/195, they would get them. More large RJs....they can barely staff DCI now so of course more large RJs help.
But why not go out and get them on their own? Because they can get us to give up scope to get them.
When the company starts parking A319s, Mad Dogs, and maybe even 717s, at least the guys who finally got here after a decade or more in the regionals can get bumped right back in to the Jungle Jet and do the same kind of flying. I seriously doubt they are
Mainline growth aircraft. They don't belong in this TA.
I'm sorry I'm a few pages behind but just got home from a 4 day trip. Here's my take after reading the contrails bit.....No.
Now that we have that out of the way, a Captain I flew with the other day said by the end of this year, we will have 3000 pilots on our list over age 60. Guess what most of those guys are looking at....the dollars so the top quarter of the list was catered that the beginning of the memo...they immediately talked about raises and had the breakdown for each aircraft 12th year rates now, after voting yes (please vote yes...unwritten but the cynical eye of mine saw it), 1/1/2016, and so forth. Know why they didn't show rates for 3rd and 4th year? Because that part of the memo wasn't for 3rd or 4th or 7th year guys. Those guys care about much more than rates so the opening salvo was just trying to immediately get a quarter of the list on board.
I've been waiting for a "Biggest aircraft order in the history of the World" or "MOAB...mother of all bids" type promise but have been disappointed until today. The E190/195 promise isn't a promise at all, just a comment about the possibility...but that isn't a trade for bigger RJ's at mainline but a carrot for the recently hired to try to get a couple thousand more on board with the hopes of a quicker upgrade or more expansion. Think about the fact that Delta isn't even maxed out on their current allotment of 76 seaters. I'm not certain but I think they have some room to expand but they haven't because they don't need more. They also don't need more 100 seaters. We still havent received all the 717's coming from SOuthwest which have a little over 100 seats. Where on Gods green earth are we going to park more small 90-100 seat aircraft? They are trying to make us think more growth aircraft are on the way but in my opinion, they are just trying to make a crappy TA appeal to another demographic. So add another 700-1000 and now you potentially have a third of the list on board before anyone has time to dig in and figure out how many less FO jobs we need if they remove 75% of the LCA trips from bidding...who figures out which trips stay in the pot and which ones get pulled?
I apologize to all of you who are focused on the greater good, I'm talking in general terms to make a point and I'm not suggesting every guy approaching 60 doesnt care about anything other than rates, I know we have a lot of great guys here that want to leave this profession better than they found it.
But I've flown with 2 Captains who busted out their calculator to figure out what an 8 percent, followed by a 6 percent raise would equate to on 01/01/2016. It's on the forefront of most pilots radar.
I haven't read the next 4 pages...possibly 8 pages by the time I hit submit, so if someone has already talked about this I'm sorry. Didn't mean to re-kill a dead horse but I am very disappointed that this is the best my union can do during the best environment in our lifetimes. I'm embarrassed for the negotiators, talk about being outclassed and outmaneuvered. And now the saddest part to come, the sales job and the fear of being parked and what Wall Street is going to think and what the NMB is going to think.
Crazy how these numbers matched the rumors, despite the warnings from the paid for talking heads to wait for the language before making up our minds. Then when we get the TA, we are supposed to read it and make the best decision for us and our family's. Then when we've done that, if we are still a No vote, then we will be told we don't have all the information...we should really listen to their information so we can be better informed.
SSDD
Peace
06-09-2015, 07:05 PM
#6929
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,599
06-09-2015, 07:07 PM
#6930
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 765-A
Posts: 6,844
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
