Purple Drank

uh, it's all in the TA. Scope concessions for the JV are large RJs are confirmed.

Commando

I'm just curious what everyone thinks the fair market value of a pilot is compensation wise? How much realistically should pilots make while taking into account not putting the company eventually in financial pain if there is an economic downturn?



$350 an Hour for 767- y2016

$400 an Hour for 777-y2016

that is what I think the pay rates should be.

And 6 weeks of Vacation after 25 years

SharpestTool

Good question in a way. Depends on who you ask. A pilot will say his value is higher than he is being compensated for, regardless. A manager will say the market value is what he is already paying. Neither get what they think a pilot is worth. The manager pays more, the pilot gets less.

A better way of looking at it may be to say what does market itself dictate and what does that typically look like. Historically we have been able to pattern bargain, where we match and receive a margin above the industry standard. In most cases that's the industry leader. That margin has been usually in the single digits, say 1-5%. This seems reasonable when you look at from the manager's perspective. He has to compete in the market for profits and shareholder value. He doesn't want to distance himself from the industry standard cost structure for fear of becoming uncompetitive.

I want much more at all times. That is natural. What is possible is another thing altogether.

Take for instance this TA. If nothing happens and this airline remains on the current trajectory, our pay will exceed AA by nearly 15%. That is a good margin for RA to eat. But, he has some hedging. If we remain this profitable, there will be plenty of profits to endure a period of relative uncompetitiveness until other airlines pattern bargain on our rates. If we lose a degree of profitability, that margin shrinks to 3.5% (when we have no profits). In this way his labor costs don't run away when he can least afford it. Smart thinking.

My preference would have been to sell another 5% PS and make that margin at 0 profitability 8.5%. That may be too rich for RA's blood.

georgetg

Before we lock-in 50% block hours, here's some actual DALPA Data on the JV for comparison:




Cheers
George

sailingfun

?, no idea what this means.

gloopy

But in coming up with a dollar value of the TA and applying that to the pay rates only would, by definition, take 100% of the company's financial concerns into account. They were all part of the up and down costing of every section. We'd be effectively paying to undo the concessions with full value reductions from the pay rates. Why on earth would they object to that? Its the ultimate "cost neutral" approach. It wouldn't cost a penny more than the current TA.

SharpestTool

OK sailing, I'm going to assume 2 to 3% will swing you. Before you get carried away, crank out the TVM to see when you have to get that before its eaten up by time. If you exceed that time, you lose. Then you either have to inflate your minimum or eat the loss.

I provided such an analysis last time. For free! If I'm asked nicely I will do it again because I love all you guys. I will show you what happens at 3,6,12,18, and 24 months. After 24 months it becomes comedy. Go ask SWAPA about that.

Cogf16

YGBFSMM, SUBTRACTED a useless little word and added 2 good ones Last one is man, you can figure the other one!

gloopy

Ah. Well trolled. Well trolled indeed.

Sounds

Is this your first online community? Have you encontered the term vocal minority? The small group of individuals that frequently and strongly voice their opinions, constrasting with the silent majority that makes up most of the population base, but rarely give their opinions.