SharpestTool

As a whole the contract isn't concessionary.

A negotiation is called a negotiation. That means the needs of both sides have to be met, not just one. At the end, more money is coming into the hands of Delta pilots, not flowing from our pockets to the company.

This is an industry leading contract and richest in history.

newKnow

I see that they will pay the A350 the same as the B777....


....if anyone here is at the meeting, can you ask them if there is anything in the language that would prohibit the company from converting A350's to A330's?

gzsg

Times are so tough they can't match the American and United pilot's 16% DC until 2017.

You can't make this stuff up.

newKnow

So, what do you think will happen if the TA get's voted down?

Did you see my response to you? Ie. what the American flight attendants did?

OceanCrosser

Herkflyr,

Sorry, but that is a bullcrap statement and I am a senior widebody captain (top 1 percent flying Delta's largest jet) with 4 more years until retirement.

I am truly disappointed in the bullet points of this TA and I would not be surprised if the MEC sends the negotiators back. I would also hope they send it back with a unanimous vote.

There are way too many givebacks in this proposed contract for me to be excited about including the F/O's being prevented from bidding LCA trips, Sick Leave verification, the lack of more vacation days and the relaxation of international scope....just to name a few.

We also agree about our Profit Sharing, I don't like the idea of our raise being funded by Profit Sharing but I caution you about lumping us senior guys in not wanting to fight the fight (I have walked a picket line before and can do it again).

Fly safe,

OC

gzsg

How many Widebody pilot jobs did we give away changing to block hours? And what was the annual cost?

My math at least $40 million per year. 100 Widebody captains and 150 Widebody first officers. And the potential to get much worse over time.

What will the cost of changing the PTIX definition for profit sharing cost us? My math 1% of our w-2.

Self funding. Worse than C2012. Cost neutral.

To say POS is and insult to s###.

roadrunner65

Riddled with concessions. Pay raises look ok until you net out PS loses and inflation. Epic failure. I voted yes on C2012, but won't even consider this one. NO!

Timbo

Here's a quick WAG:

In C2012 we reduced the profit sharing formula from 15% to 10% of the profit up to $2.5 Billion, to self fund our crappy raises, but left the amount above $2.5 Billion alone, at 20%.

Now they are also going to reduce the amount of PS above $2.5 Billion to 10% instead of 20% to self fund these crappy raises. That is a 50% reduction!

If the company earns $6 Billion, that's a reduction from $700 Million (20% of the amount above $2.5 B) to half of that; or $350 Million. That is for all employees, the pilots get about 1/3 of that number, or $115 Million, instead of twice that, or $230 Million.

In 'real dollars' the number crunchers at the MEC have said that amount equals 5.75% in pay rates, which is why we get a 6% pay raise on Jan 1. It's a wash, not a 'raise'.

The two out years of 3% raises are a joke, just like 2012. Those both need to be at least 5%.

The 8% up front is a 'raise' but still 10% short of the raise required to bring us back to 2004 pay rates, which will finally be obtained...in 2018! 14 years and Billions in concessions after 2004.

So basically, what we are getting is an 8% raise, but only if we give up a lot of other concessions to 'pay' for it. JV concessions is one of the biggest concessions, but you never wanted to be a Wide Body Captain anyway, right?

You'll look sweet with that E195 retirement photo.

DALFA

Current formula:

10% up to $2.5 billion
20% above $2.5 billion

This would equal $950 million in profit sharing at $6 billion in profits.

Proposed formula:

10% up to $6 billion
20% above $6 billion

This would equal $600 million in profit sharing at $6 billion in profits. That's up to a 37% cut in profit sharing assuming a profit of $6 billion. This years profit sharing pool was $1.1 billion and paid 16.58% of wages. With the new profit sharing formula the profit sharing would have been cut to $750 million meaning a payout of 11.3% (5.28% less).

Ferd149

Initial read through is disappointing, but I'll read it again.

No 3rd party verification, a good thing and I apologize for my rant 2 days ago. However, for an international guy, this isn't good. One long trip and it looks like you're into the rolling required verification?

We fly smaller planes internationally, so the switch to block hours is a no for me.

Profit sharing needed to be reworked outside of the section 6 process to make it more transparent. This drives me to no.

The rate numbers are disappointing but at least they are front loaded (TVM thingie). But, no for the back end numbers.

On the scope side, it's the same concept as C12. I'll have to read more but for now I'm not impressed.

Anyway, I think it was done to be "just enough" to get past the MEC so don't be shocked when it passes there. The ball will be in our court shortly, let the games begin

Ferd