Details on Delta TA
#5891
Carl
#5892
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Joined APC: Mar 2008
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I
The average pay was 180k in 2013. When the 2014,numbers are posted with the raise and increase in PS it will be near or over 200k. The reduction in profit sharing was about 1.9%. I don't know where you got your numbers. The math has been posted many times. A simple recap is the profit sharing amount was reduced 125 million dollars. The reduction was a fixed amount. The pilot share of that is about 34 to 35% or just under 44 million. 1% in pay equals just under 23 million dollars.
The average Delta pilot credits about 87 hours per month. Some more and some less.
Keep in mind that pay and w2 are not the same. You need to view your 31 DEC pay check and view the gross for the year to get a accurate amount.
The average pay was 180k in 2013. When the 2014,numbers are posted with the raise and increase in PS it will be near or over 200k. The reduction in profit sharing was about 1.9%. I don't know where you got your numbers. The math has been posted many times. A simple recap is the profit sharing amount was reduced 125 million dollars. The reduction was a fixed amount. The pilot share of that is about 34 to 35% or just under 44 million. 1% in pay equals just under 23 million dollars.
The average Delta pilot credits about 87 hours per month. Some more and some less.
Keep in mind that pay and w2 are not the same. You need to view your 31 DEC pay check and view the gross for the year to get a accurate amount.
How can a reduction in my profit sharing (return on investment in delta) by 5 percent over the next 20 years equal only 2 percent of a 1-year increase?
The profit sharing for the entire employee group is being reduced from 15 percent to 10 percent of the first $2.5B of pre-tax income. The pilot group’s share of that payout is roughly one-third, or 5 percent (1/3 of 15%) under the old formula and 3.33 percent (1/3 of 10%) under the TA. Here is how the math works out:
Under today’s profit-sharing plan, should Delta have a pretax income of $2.5B, the 15% payout would yield $375M for all eligible employees. Of
that, the pilot group would share roughly one-third, or $125M. Under the TA, that amount will be reduced to $83M, with the remaining $42M having been con- verted into additional pay rates that are received up front and throughout the year.
Now consider that in 2011, Delta had a pretax income of $1.522B. The 15% payout yielded $228M, of which the pilot group received roughly one-third, or $76M. Under the TA, that amount would have been reduced to $51M, but the pilot group would still have received the same $42M in additional pay rates up front throughout the year as described above, for a total payout of $93M or $17M more than had profit sharing not been con- verted to pay.
Because the profit-sharing payout above $2.5B has not been changed, we will see no difference in payouts above that amount should Delta’s pretax income exceed it.
Now I'm just spitballing some basic math here, but basically the PS giveback during C2012 was approximately $42 million/year for the past 3 years. (1/3 of 5% on $2.5 billion)
That amounts to approximately $3,500 divided evenly amongst roughly 12,000 pilots. I don't really like percentages because they have a tendency of clouding facts to persuade an opinion.
That being said...
For a pilot who made $100K that amounted to 3.5% giveback.
For a pilot who made $200K that amounted to 1.8% giveback.
The percentages above are all in relation to gross pay because that is what we use to calculate our individual payouts. I'm not really concerned on how the 42 millions divided up, but it's a point with merit seeing as cumulatively we gave up $126 million in C2012.
I didn't write the above to persuade anyone, mearly wanted to show how misleading percentages can be at times.
I'll take a look at my W-2 and get back to you, but honestly 87 hours per month seems high to me. Perhaps I'm in a minority, but I typically fly between 75-80.
Last edited by DeadHead; 06-06-2015 at 05:24 PM.
#5893
#5894
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Joined APC: Mar 2015
Posts: 115
What you and The Tool fail to acknowledge or comprehend is the time value of concessions. C2012 was cost neutral to Delta largely because of our concessions. TA2015 looks the same regarding concessions.
If you two and your ilk are going to be screaming time value of money as the reason you have to take the deal as long as it's quick, make sure you calculate the time value of NOT taking concessions.
Carl
If you two and your ilk are going to be screaming time value of money as the reason you have to take the deal as long as it's quick, make sure you calculate the time value of NOT taking concessions.
Carl
#5895
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Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,544
Are you ready to wait 3 years like SWAPA? Time is money. How much are you willing to spend? When they finally get an agreement, back that money up to the amendable date and see how modest the raises could have been to replicate the same performance. Math is good in that way, it cuts through the BS and shows that maybe "stones" aren't as valuable as some folks on this board make them out to be. Maybe we can get a nuetral's opinion and ask American and US Airways pilots about "stones" and how time and money passed them by.
But you also have to consider the time cost of concessions.
If the rumors are even 1/4 true about what's being given up, it is WAY better to wind the watch and wait as long as it takes, even 3-5 years, rather than eating layered deep concessions for a paltry slightly higher than inflation paid for raise. Not even close. Easy button.
#5896
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Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,544
This is one of the silliest comments ever. Southwest last had a raise in 2011. Their contract was amendable right around the time ALPA negotiated the Delta contract in 2012. They could have gotten our 20% raise and now be negotiating again. They got 0% and are still negotiating. And you think that's better? 0 is better than 20? In what universe do you live.
But that's not what we're dealing with now, is it?
#5897
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Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,544
#5898
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Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,544
No thanks.
#5899
It adds up to Richard and Ed, and they have the data...you don't.
But it will probably get you some flight pay loss Bananie. You're a loyal soldier.
Carl
#5900
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Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,544
Nowhere near enough to carry the day on their own.
I care about all the demographics, including short timers and dead zoners. But we have GOT to get out of the mindset of selling hard won work rules just to get something today. No one in their last few years should have any reasonable expectation of canibalizing an existing contract just to get paid more themselves today. That's PRP insanity on steroids.
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