Details on Delta TA
08-13-2014, 06:25 PM
#581
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
It was the butler. In the study. With the candlestick.
Interesting. But could you have an SPG number that went nowhere?
08-13-2014, 06:35 PM
#582
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
It's one of two epic turds in buried in this otherwise sensible letter that Carl floated. I'm not suggesting Carl is responsible for it, but it goes to show you how you can place shiite sandwiches within a colorful trial balloon, and gently float them over the pilot group, hoping people get distracted by the spectacle.
It's like a 1/3 of your profit-sharing being placed inside a shiny 717, but much worse. You can fly in the left seat of that 717 while cursing the loss of 1/3 of your profit-sharing, but you can't even bid that 717 t all, if Delta pilots are busy selling their vacation, and hoaring around at FAR limits.
It's like a 1/3 of your profit-sharing being placed inside a shiny 717, but much worse. You can fly in the left seat of that 717 while cursing the loss of 1/3 of your profit-sharing, but you can't even bid that 717 t all, if Delta pilots are busy selling their vacation, and hoaring around at FAR limits.
Carl
08-13-2014, 06:35 PM
#583
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Alright how about this.
Above ALV you get 2x pay. BUT, you are limited to 100 hours of credit excluding GSs. So it's 2x pay AND a cap.
So, 85 hour ALV, say you're line from PBS went to 90 hours. You'd get paid 85 hours + you get 5 hours x 2, so you're paid 95 hours.
But now, you're capped because you can't pick up anything less than 5 hours which times two would put you over 100. But don't cry. If everyone gets capped, then there will be more in the pot for GS flying.
If the ALV was 72 hours, fly an extra 2-day, get paid 93 hours. Now put in for GSs.
And let's make GSs really fair, instead of restarting the block every month, use a 3 month running window.
Above ALV you get 2x pay. BUT, you are limited to 100 hours of credit excluding GSs. So it's 2x pay AND a cap.
So, 85 hour ALV, say you're line from PBS went to 90 hours. You'd get paid 85 hours + you get 5 hours x 2, so you're paid 95 hours.
But now, you're capped because you can't pick up anything less than 5 hours which times two would put you over 100. But don't cry. If everyone gets capped, then there will be more in the pot for GS flying.
If the ALV was 72 hours, fly an extra 2-day, get paid 93 hours. Now put in for GSs.
And let's make GSs really fair, instead of restarting the block every month, use a 3 month running window.
08-13-2014, 06:35 PM
#584
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: DAL FO
Posts: 2,169
Not sure where exactly the letter originated from, but there were two pilots handing it out at the 44 meeting last week, one of whom claimed that he wrote it. The guy didn't look anything like Bill Murray either...
There are plenty of good ideas in that document, a few pie-in-the-sky dreams, and then there is vacation sell back - which I will never be okay with no matter how much the company is offering to buy it back at.
1.5x over 80 has be rehashed so many times I think we should leave the dead horse alone. I agree with sink that we don't need to further incentivize pilots to fly high time...this leads into my biggest concern with our collective agenda going forward: just because the hiring/retiring is supposed to be chugging along for a decade+ doesn't mean we should overlook these types of staffing-negative items. Just because we won't "feel it" due to the movement doesn't mean it's ok. Eventually the music will stop again, and it will suck that much more if we erode our work rules/staffing requirements.
08-13-2014, 06:46 PM
#585
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
I knew Carl didn't text me that pic.
Amen.
Amen.
08-13-2014, 06:46 PM
#586
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Big picture on this new attempt at 1.5>80:
It's very, very important to understand how we split hypothetical dollars gained in negotiations. I agree with the anonymous author that there are plenty of ways to increase W-2's.
Payrates help everyone equally, in theory, but give the highest absolute $ amount to the highest earners, obviously. Conversely, flat-rate items, such as better health insurance, or uniform allowances, help the lowest earners the most, in terms of % "increase", but give everyone the same amount.
I'm all for giving more in flat-rate items, because I'm sick of subsidizing my job with uniforms, health care, etc. I'm OK with helping the junior guys a little more in that sense, because I want a higher DC%, higher payrates to steer some money towards senior guys in proportion to income.
I'm just dead-set against giving extra-special benefits, above and beyond, to guys who fly even more. Especially when we already have great system (GS) to help guys that help the company in a bind, at 2X pay. Anyone who flies a normal schedule, anyone who understands that incentivizing routine overtime hurts advancement, and anyone who relies on GS to supplement their income, needs to understand this is a barely disguised reach into their wallet.
It's very, very important to understand how we split hypothetical dollars gained in negotiations. I agree with the anonymous author that there are plenty of ways to increase W-2's.
Payrates help everyone equally, in theory, but give the highest absolute $ amount to the highest earners, obviously. Conversely, flat-rate items, such as better health insurance, or uniform allowances, help the lowest earners the most, in terms of % "increase", but give everyone the same amount.
I'm all for giving more in flat-rate items, because I'm sick of subsidizing my job with uniforms, health care, etc. I'm OK with helping the junior guys a little more in that sense, because I want a higher DC%, higher payrates to steer some money towards senior guys in proportion to income.
I'm just dead-set against giving extra-special benefits, above and beyond, to guys who fly even more. Especially when we already have great system (GS) to help guys that help the company in a bind, at 2X pay. Anyone who flies a normal schedule, anyone who understands that incentivizing routine overtime hurts advancement, and anyone who relies on GS to supplement their income, needs to understand this is a barely disguised reach into their wallet.
Carl
08-13-2014, 06:47 PM
#587
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2012
Position: ATL 7ER A
Posts: 308
I was also at the C44 meeting, and got a chance to talk to the author.
This is very good timing with regard to the letter - there are a lot of good things presented, and it is another reminder that we need to shake off the habits remaining from DB plans and pay scales designed to maximize FAE. We can seek other ways to improve the value of our contract.
It is interesting that such a wide spectrum of pilots embrace the ideas in the letter, and just in time for the contract survey.
This is very good timing with regard to the letter - there are a lot of good things presented, and it is another reminder that we need to shake off the habits remaining from DB plans and pay scales designed to maximize FAE. We can seek other ways to improve the value of our contract.
It is interesting that such a wide spectrum of pilots embrace the ideas in the letter, and just in time for the contract survey.
08-13-2014, 06:52 PM
#589
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Alright how about this.
Above ALV you get 2x pay. BUT, you are limited to 100 hours of credit excluding GSs. So it's 2x pay AND a cap.
So, 85 hour ALV, say you're line from PBS went to 90 hours. You'd get paid 85 hours + you get 5 hours x 2, so you're paid 95 hours.
But now, you're capped because you can't pick up anything less than 5 hours which times two would put you over 100. But don't cry. If everyone gets capped, then there will be more in the pot for GS flying.
If the ALV was 72 hours, fly an extra 2-day, get paid 93 hours. Now put in for GSs.
And let's make GSs really fair, instead of restarting the block every month, use a 3 month running window.
Above ALV you get 2x pay. BUT, you are limited to 100 hours of credit excluding GSs. So it's 2x pay AND a cap.
So, 85 hour ALV, say you're line from PBS went to 90 hours. You'd get paid 85 hours + you get 5 hours x 2, so you're paid 95 hours.
But now, you're capped because you can't pick up anything less than 5 hours which times two would put you over 100. But don't cry. If everyone gets capped, then there will be more in the pot for GS flying.
If the ALV was 72 hours, fly an extra 2-day, get paid 93 hours. Now put in for GSs.
And let's make GSs really fair, instead of restarting the block every month, use a 3 month running window.
No! No I tell you! I didn't think of it so it's an epic turd! Burn the place down!
Carl
08-13-2014, 06:54 PM
#590
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
I was also at the C44 meeting, and got a chance to talk to the author.
This is very good timing with regard to the letter - there are a lot of good things presented, and it is another reminder that we need to shake off the habits remaining from DB plans and pay scales designed to maximize FAE. We can seek other ways to improve the value of our contract.
It is interesting that such a wide spectrum of pilots embrace the ideas in the letter, and just in time for the contract survey.
This is very good timing with regard to the letter - there are a lot of good things presented, and it is another reminder that we need to shake off the habits remaining from DB plans and pay scales designed to maximize FAE. We can seek other ways to improve the value of our contract.
It is interesting that such a wide spectrum of pilots embrace the ideas in the letter, and just in time for the contract survey.
Carl
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