scambo1

Do we get red bull at top of descent?

notEnuf

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQY4i5fDYMM

5:25, 5:40, 6:49

pilotc90a

I thought they said "we heard you loud and clear"? maybe they heard us and just knew what was best for us.

In the learning to say yes front.... I woke up to another missive selling us on C2012. If a contract is go good, shouldn't it stand on its own merits? Why are we STILL getting a sales job on a three year old contract?

LeineLodge

At least your spamming is consistent. Mods, can we consolidate all of these identical posts into a special Jerry thread so I can enjoy them all at once?

Jerry, is this specific info gleaned from someone in the know? If so, please share your source. There is clearly a comm vacuum that is begging to be filled with any tidbit of information.

If you spread your made up numbers (with no context of the entire deal btw) for the next 5 days, I'd argue that you are actually helping the company lower our expectations.

To use your numbers (that I don't buy unless you can name a source):

Jerry says PS will be reduced by 5.75%

Hypothetical TA comes out and it is reduced by 2%.

Suddenly that doesn't sound so bad since Jerry has had us all bracing for a larger offset. Win!

For another example, let's go with everything you say as true, but we somehow achieved a min day of 8 hours, resulting in a huge increase in W2 and lots more time off....Now how does the TA look? Bullet points (especially fabricated ones) are useless without context.

We could do this for the next 5 days; making up BS* and arguing about it. I don't expect it to stop, and don't really care, but wouldn't it be more civilized if we allow the oft-slandered "process" to work itself out, and THEN pick it apart when we have the facts. I know I look forward to seeing the whole package (good and bad) and the spirited debates that will come with it.



*Jerry, as I've said before, I know you're a great guy in person. We've flown together and I thoroughly enjoyed the whole 5 days. I will happily retract my statement above and apologize if you can put up your source and/or provide concrete details of the TA. Everyone I know that has seen the deal isn't talking about it. If you know something different, please share.

LeineLodge

It's only a sales job if you allow yourself to be sold. Otherwise I read it as a reminder of the benefits of consistently improving contracts, and more recently, with AA/UA/US, how pattern bargaining benefits the whole profession.

All that said, I am TRYING to be patient to wait and see the details of the current TA. C2012 is history, and got us to where we are (the good and the bad: higher ALV's, 30 day summer months, etc) but my focus now is on what's in front of the MEC. It needs to be a solid, stand-on-it's-own good deal. We'll know one way or the other in a few more days.

Regarding the email we received...I didn't see anything factually inaccurate in the Table Talk. However when I offered it to my wife, to look it over, she politely declined. "Just let me know how it turns out" was the response.

Splash

Makes sense.

Why are we getting a "No" sales job here before we know the details of this deal?

We should practice what we preach. Don't sell. Don't insult. Read the actual TA, and discuss the details.

Splash

Other than a year ago? Unless you just flew a CDO, I will have to disagree.

Bigflya

I agree. Talking to my Nyc reps they often seem to care more about pilots who are not yet on the property over those that are here now.

Boatbuilder

It's a 12 hour drive from Ramadi to Dubai. I wonder how ISIS will do running an airline.

LeineLodge

I kinda understand, although I think it's counterproductive. It's in the pilot DNA to require information and control when we're heading towards a destination. This is no different. When we don't have the big picture, or there is a lack of information (no ATIS, can't get ahold of dispatch, etc) we are hard-wired to default to the worst case scenario. It's exactly why we are so good at what we do at work, and exactly why we are soooo bad in situations like this where we are temporarily flying blind.

To overuse aviation analogies in one post, I view this part of the process like deadheading. If I didn't have confidence in the crew, I wouldn't have gotten on board. Now that we're airborne I have to endure a little turbulence and allow the crew to do their job.

When we land (assuming we made it to the right airport), I'll walk across the hall to the next gate and thoroughly go over the paperwork (TA) for the flight that I'm about to operate (vote on.)


Agreed