Details on Delta TA
05-31-2015, 07:34 AM
#5221
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,544
Right. But we don't get 100% of the PS described in the PWA. That is the amount shared by the entire eligible Delta employee group, of which we get about 37%. So, our share is 37% of 10% (i.e., 3.7%) of PTIX up to $2.5B and 37% of 20% (i.e., 7.4%) of PTIX above $2.5B.
05-31-2015, 07:36 AM
#5222
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
So just how are you going to get management to publish competitively sensitive data (CPA costs)?
Btw, the analysis was done. The MEC was briefed. With the actual numbers, not speculation and assumption. It didn't work out as you wish it did. Ask the current and former code-share guys if you want another source.
Management disagrees with your assumptions, and they have the data to back it up. Since C2012 the cost differences have grown more stark, as our costs are up 20% and DCI costs are down substantially (PCL bankruptcy reset, contract renegotiations). DCI is down about 150 jets, mainline is up a bunch. And that's with fuel dropping 40%, which makes the RJ's more competitive.
Oh, and before you trot out your 3 year old spreadsheets (how do those look now anyway
) UAL is just beginning their RJ reductions this year. Other than upgauging, AMR hasn't really gotten started in a meaningful way except for transferring Envoy assets. So for something that was "going to happen anyway" it took our competitors 3 years to begin. We're already back in negotiations for a new deal. FDX, SWA, and UPS "wound the clock." UAL won't negotiate for another year and still lags us by a year. APA traded the guts of their contract (scope, sick leave, disability, work rules) for pay, but is now stuck until 2020 (new amendable date).
And you're flying in a shiny "new" jet, and DCI has about 30% fewer pilots.
Btw, the analysis was done. The MEC was briefed. With the actual numbers, not speculation and assumption. It didn't work out as you wish it did. Ask the current and former code-share guys if you want another source.
Management disagrees with your assumptions, and they have the data to back it up. Since C2012 the cost differences have grown more stark, as our costs are up 20% and DCI costs are down substantially (PCL bankruptcy reset, contract renegotiations). DCI is down about 150 jets, mainline is up a bunch. And that's with fuel dropping 40%, which makes the RJ's more competitive.
Oh, and before you trot out your 3 year old spreadsheets (how do those look now anyway
) UAL is just beginning their RJ reductions this year. Other than upgauging, AMR hasn't really gotten started in a meaningful way except for transferring Envoy assets. So for something that was "going to happen anyway" it took our competitors 3 years to begin. We're already back in negotiations for a new deal. FDX, SWA, and UPS "wound the clock." UAL won't negotiate for another year and still lags us by a year. APA traded the guts of their contract (scope, sick leave, disability, work rules) for pay, but is now stuck until 2020 (new amendable date).And you're flying in a shiny "new" jet, and DCI has about 30% fewer pilots.
Btw If fuel prices are down then they're also cheaper now to run here as well even with our higher rates, no? Also, our rates might be up but we are also more productive, no? Ed said so.
So maybe we should crunch those numbers again? When were those numbers crunched? And how much value was assigned to having it under one big roof for QC and performance reasons?
Now maybe is just me but sometimes I just get the feeling some people really like having those... what was the term used... flaps? ****ing little airplanes or something? Anyways, having those jets here. Some people just to be adamentally against it or scope recapture. Makes no sense to me.
Speaking of my spreadsheets, it only calculated the MBH : DBH ratio and capacity changes.
Right now I show 1.66 is the ratio, out of curiosity, what do you show with the real numbers?
05-31-2015, 07:37 AM
#5223
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,539
I'm sure there's some no talent hack B-school ladder climbers that would like to ink billion dollar extentions for 50 seat lift because the flash in the pan actuarials make it seem more palatable with cheaper oil. Monetize the temporary Saudi assault on US oil production into a long term renewal of a failed business model, bonuses all around baybee!
I can only imagine what we will have to give up to prevent this.
Or worse, what we will "gain" to allow it.
I can only imagine what we will have to give up to prevent this.
Or worse, what we will "gain" to allow it.
05-31-2015, 07:48 AM
#5224
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Just a thought.
05-31-2015, 07:50 AM
#5225
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Position: stake holder ir.delta.com
Posts: 10,456
Alan, Slow,
Thank you.
They are correct. The smell test wasn't met and I am confident now you will be able to explain why.
PTIX ins't 4.5.
PTIX its a calculation closer to 6.45 after adding back taxes and one time items. Then you get to the 1.1B payout.
Pilots share 37% Thank you.
Dollar for dollar monetization would be your gross profit sharing check.
Or
37% of 1.1B = 407M
Real answer C is 412m - 407m, we are within 5m of 2004 rates Now!!! We don't need a TA now to get there.
If you want any of my profit sharing do better than this!
Screenshot (38).jpg
Thank you.
They are correct. The smell test wasn't met and I am confident now you will be able to explain why.
PTIX ins't 4.5.
PTIX its a calculation closer to 6.45 after adding back taxes and one time items. Then you get to the 1.1B payout.
Pilots share 37% Thank you.
Dollar for dollar monetization would be your gross profit sharing check.
Or
37% of 1.1B = 407M
Real answer C is 412m - 407m, we are within 5m of 2004 rates Now!!! We don't need a TA now to get there.
If you want any of my profit sharing do better than this!
Screenshot (38).jpg
Last edited by notEnuf; 05-31-2015 at 08:30 AM.
05-31-2015, 07:52 AM
#5226
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,544
And I bet they don't return 15%? �� when they're parked for lack of staffing (plus mesabah's point about paper sorcery with their fuel being unhedged etc).
In addition to that, they are pretty much the worst jet engined product in the industry right now, and worse than some props. They're hotter than an 88 in the summer, cramped, constantly blade running weight and balance, and they're running out of pilots to operate them. Its taken a quarter million per 4-5 years per pilot at one airline to even come close to solving the problem, and that is only buying a little time and ends up hurting other airline's ability to staff them, many of which are also DCI.
But the real "RJ" issue right now isn't the 50, its the 70 and especially the 90 seaters (76 installed per management's discretion). They want us to breathe more lift into DCI. Again. And are offering another urgent time value of concessions to allow it, when we should be granting no DCI relief under any circumstances. If anything, we need to be sunsetting the larger ones.
05-31-2015, 07:56 AM
#5227
:-)
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,339
We are flying the CR9's into the places the 200 went last year. If you look at the economics, in no way is a 50 seater better than a 76 seater in any market.
05-31-2015, 07:58 AM
#5228
Works Every Weekend
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: 737 ATL
Posts: 3,506
Management is nearly irrelevant in this phase of the battle.
Whatever the MEC ratifies, the pilots will ratify. The company knows that and ALPA knows that.
This fight is for the heart and soul of our union.
Its the pilots against the old bulls of ALPA.
They brought us through bankruptcy by cooperating with pretty much everything the corporation needed or desired. They did that and still hung on to the guts of our work rules and we should be thankful. Those were scary times.
But its a new day now. We do NOT have to give the company everything they ask for. We CAN say no to management. In fact, its healthy to do so once in a while.
Not every contract has to relax scope. Not every contract has to enhance "productivity". (which just mean pilots work more hours). Not every contract has to whittle away at our sick benefits, etc. etc.
Delta Air Lines is making a ton of money. We deserve an "up" contract. Its that simple.
A bit of give and take? Fine. Major concessions? HE|| NO.
05-31-2015, 08:11 AM
#5229
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
So just how are you going to get management to publish competitively sensitive data (CPA costs)?
Btw, the analysis was done. The MEC was briefed. With the actual numbers, not speculation and assumption. It didn't work out as you wish it did. Ask the current and former code-share guys if you want another source.
Management disagrees with your assumptions, and they have the data to back it up. Since C2012 the cost differences have grown more stark, as our costs are up 20% and DCI costs are down substantially (PCL bankruptcy reset, contract renegotiations). DCI is down about 150 jets, mainline is up a bunch. And that's with fuel dropping 40%, which makes the RJ's more competitive.
Oh, and before you trot out your 3 year old spreadsheets (how do those look now anyway) UAL is just beginning their RJ reductions this year. Other than upgauging, AMR hasn't really gotten started in a meaningful way except for transferring Envoy assets. So for something that was "going to happen anyway" it took our competitors 3 years to begin. We're already back in negotiations for a new deal. FDX, SWA, and UPS "wound the clock." UAL won't negotiate for another year and still lags us by a year. APA traded the guts of their contract (scope, sick leave, disability, work rules) for pay, but is now stuck until 2020 (new amendable date).
And you're flying in a shiny "new" jet, and DCI has about 30% fewer pilots.
Btw, the analysis was done. The MEC was briefed. With the actual numbers, not speculation and assumption. It didn't work out as you wish it did. Ask the current and former code-share guys if you want another source.
Management disagrees with your assumptions, and they have the data to back it up. Since C2012 the cost differences have grown more stark, as our costs are up 20% and DCI costs are down substantially (PCL bankruptcy reset, contract renegotiations). DCI is down about 150 jets, mainline is up a bunch. And that's with fuel dropping 40%, which makes the RJ's more competitive.
Oh, and before you trot out your 3 year old spreadsheets (how do those look now anyway
) UAL is just beginning their RJ reductions this year. Other than upgauging, AMR hasn't really gotten started in a meaningful way except for transferring Envoy assets. So for something that was "going to happen anyway" it took our competitors 3 years to begin. We're already back in negotiations for a new deal. FDX, SWA, and UPS "wound the clock." UAL won't negotiate for another year and still lags us by a year. APA traded the guts of their contract (scope, sick leave, disability, work rules) for pay, but is now stuck until 2020 (new amendable date).And you're flying in a shiny "new" jet, and DCI has about 30% fewer pilots.
Absolutely amazing. Our negotiators make the case for management while getting all their data from management. Any professional negotiator would be laughing and face palming.
Carl
05-31-2015, 08:14 AM
#5230
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
In 2012, our economic analysis folks did not predict the billions in profits. So we accepted paltry pay raises and concessions. Now we know the truth moving forward. The company wants a fast contract because it will be difficult to negotiate in this climate of ridiculous profits, including stock buy backs, dividends, etc. I would predict they go on another buying spree, i.e. Virgin Atlantic, refineries, GOL and RJ purchases. They did it post C2102.
"Those who can not remember the past are condemned to repeat it".
"Those who can not remember the past are condemned to repeat it".
Great gig if you can get it.
Carl
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
