Details on Delta TA
05-23-2015, 04:50 AM
#4691
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,108
Back to C2015.
No concessions.
No self funding with reduced profit sharing.
IMO their hope is we will overlook all the concessions for 9,6,4,4 with reduced profit sharing. It's that simple.
"Look at your rates on 1/1/18."
If we fall for this, we deserve it.
No concessions.
No self funding with reduced profit sharing.
IMO their hope is we will overlook all the concessions for 9,6,4,4 with reduced profit sharing. It's that simple.
"Look at your rates on 1/1/18."
If we fall for this, we deserve it.
05-23-2015, 05:16 AM
#4692
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 5,016
This is clearly not what the rumor is about. If all you did was remove the buddy bid LCA feature, that wouldn't change anything. Guys would still bid to award employee numbers that were LCA. If you removed that, guys would write massive bids to avoid everyone that isn't an LCA. If you removed that, it may make a difference right away, but it wouldn't take long for black market networks to develop to trip specific/mirror bid that the LCA's are bidding. And all of this doesn't change the issue of pilots getting bought off trips.
No, this is not what its about. They are very obviously coming after all of it. Either in the form of recovery or outright removing the trips from what FO's can even bid to get in the first place.
We just agreed to the no recovery in exchange for a pretty huge concession of a freeze for new hires. If they want the recovery back, they can lose the freezes. Even then, recovery needs WAY more protections that it had before.
They are doing this to reduce staffing and pilot jobs, after we gave a concession to get it already. Removing trips from the pool is the absolute worst idea possible and way overshoots their concern anyway. No deal.
No, this is not what its about. They are very obviously coming after all of it. Either in the form of recovery or outright removing the trips from what FO's can even bid to get in the first place.
We just agreed to the no recovery in exchange for a pretty huge concession of a freeze for new hires. If they want the recovery back, they can lose the freezes. Even then, recovery needs WAY more protections that it had before.
They are doing this to reduce staffing and pilot jobs, after we gave a concession to get it already. Removing trips from the pool is the absolute worst idea possible and way overshoots their concern anyway. No deal.
The new hire freeze was not the only thing we gave up to get rid of the recovery flying. When they merged the 767 domestic into the ER category, a pilot wasn't considered done with training until all TOE's were done. Now a pilot can fly domestically while waiting to finish his/her TOE's. That kept pilots from sitting at home getting paid to do nothing. That was a bigger concession than the freeze, but well worth it to get rid of recovery obligations for OE.
05-23-2015, 05:23 AM
#4693
Wind the clock beoch
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 437
05-23-2015, 06:04 AM
#4694
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2014
Posts: 260
Regarding RH, I find it ironic that many of the people who claim that they were screwed in the SLI are the same ones who now claim that one of the guys responsible for their "screwing" is now suddenly corrupt and ineffective.
For the record, I don't agree with either claim. I do enjoy the irony, however.
For the record, I don't agree with either claim. I do enjoy the irony, however.
05-23-2015, 06:32 AM
#4695
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,599
The new hire freeze was not the only thing we gave up to get rid of the recovery flying. When they merged the 767 domestic into the ER category, a pilot wasn't considered done with training until all TOE's were done. Now a pilot can fly domestically while waiting to finish his/her TOE's. That kept pilots from sitting at home getting paid to do nothing. That was a bigger concession than the freeze, but well worth it to get rid of recovery obligations for OE.
From what I have been told the companies biggest concern is a very small subset of pilots who are virtually not working at all with smart bidding and last minute swaps. The last minute swaps are causing pilot to pilot issues that spill into the CP's office.
The question becomes do we try and leverage some type of change that might benefit all pilots like restoring a paid authorized leave each year or stand by the current system and perhaps have the company stop releasing FO's for IOE's. I don't have the answer and I suspect the pilot group would be deeply divided.
05-23-2015, 06:35 AM
#4696
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Position: Lowest Pay I Could Find
Posts: 1,044
You are correct, that was a large LOE with many moving parts. The 767 domestic carve out was bigger back then with extensive delays for TOE. That is less now. One thing no one has mentioned. There is no requirement in the contract to release the FO on a trip with a IOE. The contract only covers what happens if the LCA decides to release the FO. If the company were to decide to play hardball they could tell the LCA's to not release the FO's.
From what I have been told the companies biggest concern is a very small subset of pilots who are virtually not working at all with smart bidding and last minute swaps. The last minute swaps are causing pilot to pilot issues that spill into the CP's office.
The question becomes do we try and leverage some type of change that might benefit all pilots like restoring a paid authorized leave each year or stand by the current system and perhaps have the company stop releasing FO's for IOE's. I don't have the answer and I suspect the pilot group would be deeply divided.
From what I have been told the companies biggest concern is a very small subset of pilots who are virtually not working at all with smart bidding and last minute swaps. The last minute swaps are causing pilot to pilot issues that spill into the CP's office.
The question becomes do we try and leverage some type of change that might benefit all pilots like restoring a paid authorized leave each year or stand by the current system and perhaps have the company stop releasing FO's for IOE's. I don't have the answer and I suspect the pilot group would be deeply divided.
05-23-2015, 06:41 AM
#4697
Works Every Weekend
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: 737 ATL
Posts: 3,506
Regarding RH, I find it ironic that many of the people who claim that they were screwed in the SLI are the same ones who now claim that one of the guys responsible for their "screwing" is now suddenly corrupt and ineffective.
For the record, I don't agree with either claim. I do enjoy the irony, however.
For the record, I don't agree with either claim. I do enjoy the irony, however.
The biggest problem I have with him is his clear bias toward and deference to management, the NMB and the courts.
In addition to his paid job for the United pilots he also consulted for the American pilots.
His posts on this forum urging the AA pilots to cave in to management's initial demands during their 1113 bankruptcy hearings were way over the top. He wanted them to give up their pensions and work rules and agree to everything management wanted. Thankfully they ignored his advice and held out. They ended up with a much better deal. Not even the bankruptcy judge was willing to impose the draconian stuff that Harwood told the AA pilots they should accept.
05-23-2015, 06:46 AM
#4698
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,599
Additional fallout happens when the now ****ed off junior pilot calls in sick forcing the senior guy who did the last minute swap to now fly the trip. Sometimes they then call in sick. The company does not like this.
I posted a solution I thought was reasonable to stop this a few months ago. That would be releasing the senior pilot from the original PCS bid run first even if a more senior pilot swapped into the other FO slot after the initial bid award.
05-23-2015, 06:54 AM
#4699
Works Every Weekend
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: 737 ATL
Posts: 3,506
A senior pilot will bid a desireable trip in a international category. He will then monitor all the LCA trips. He will find one he likes with a TOE on the trip. The day prior when he is sure the TOE is happening he calls up the junior pilot and swaps his better trip. He now becomes the senior pilot and stays home. The original senior pilot is now the junior pilot and has to fly a trip he thought he was going to be released from.
Additional fallout happens when the now ****ed off junior pilot calls in sick forcing the senior guy who did the last minute swap to now fly the trip. Sometimes they then call in sick. The company does not like this.
Additional fallout happens when the now ****ed off junior pilot calls in sick forcing the senior guy who did the last minute swap to now fly the trip. Sometimes they then call in sick. The company does not like this.
05-23-2015, 07:00 AM
#4700
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,057
Withholding trips from being awarded to FO's cannot be allowed to pass under any circumstance.
Think about it, you could be #1 in your category and not get any trip you bid. It'd be like playing poker with 45 cards in the deck and they don't tell you which 7 are missing.
Think about it, you could be #1 in your category and not get any trip you bid. It'd be like playing poker with 45 cards in the deck and they don't tell you which 7 are missing.
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