Details on Delta TA
05-17-2015, 04:58 PM
#4352
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,599
AA and UA have less fleet types than we do, and AA is agressively getting rid of 88's (or wonder 80's or whatever they call them) and will soon have even less. Even now I think we lead the industry in fleet types, including types with significant operational and marketing overlap. All that needs to be backed out and credited for the marketing premium.
As for pay banding, even if we go to 3 bands there's major debate as to how much training that would really save. Unless we're talking increased freezes or whatever, which I'd hope wouldn't be in a TA. For a few years banding would probably cause as many moves as it saves. People don't just bid around for the relatively small hourly differentials between most categories as much as they do for relative seniority, bases, upgrades, types of flying and other factors. Change the game mid stream and you will create bidding in an attempt to save bidding.
As for pay banding, even if we go to 3 bands there's major debate as to how much training that would really save. Unless we're talking increased freezes or whatever, which I'd hope wouldn't be in a TA. For a few years banding would probably cause as many moves as it saves. People don't just bid around for the relatively small hourly differentials between most categories as much as they do for relative seniority, bases, upgrades, types of flying and other factors. Change the game mid stream and you will create bidding in an attempt to save bidding.
As far as fleet types all of the big three have a bunch. American has the MD, 737, 757/767 Dom, 7er, 777, E190, A319,20,21, A330, 787 and A350's on order. They are combining the 767 domestic and international but still will have 9 fleets.
05-17-2015, 05:28 PM
#4353
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
In theory, you're correct. In reality, I always am amazed by how fast guys go from taking a stand on the rest of the contract, to dropping everything when a Section 3 rumor floats by.
05-17-2015, 09:08 PM
#4354
On Reserve
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: 73N/FO
Posts: 13
I don't care what the rest of the industry thinks about our contract.
C2012 was not an excellent contract by any stretch. I was a yes vote and I regret it because I now truly belive Delta would be making billions even if we had gotten full restoration on the last contract. I think many of those on this board who lost retirements and dropped 40% of their pay would disagree with your assertion.
The slow climb back up over the last 10 years is hardly something to envy. We have been climbing out of a pit. So I don't care about comparing other airlines who are also just trying to climb out of the pit. I don't think that should be celebrated. There is no pit anymore. Billions are coming in. Management should be trying to make things right after all of these years. I don't think DALPA should be trying to take credit for something management should've done in the first place. We are within spitting distance of getting full restoration but it seems like there are many on here that just can't bring themselves to say the word "restoration".
Why not?
05-18-2015, 04:58 AM
#4355
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2015
Position: Power top
Posts: 2,960
Agreed. Why do pilots have the inherent thought process that we have worry if RA can afford to pay us fairly? We work for clearly the highest paid CEO in the industry, do we deserve less?
The management team will take of care of themselves and we must take care of our careers and families. Write your reps. Demand a fair contract, no concessions, and a full restoration of your benefits that were taken in bankruptcy.
The management team will take of care of themselves and we must take care of our careers and families. Write your reps. Demand a fair contract, no concessions, and a full restoration of your benefits that were taken in bankruptcy.
05-18-2015, 06:59 AM
#4356
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,544
I agree with you on pay banding. We are partially banded now and I dont think it would make much difference in training.
As far as fleet types all of the big three have a bunch. American has the MD, 737, 757/767 Dom, 7er, 777, E190, A319,20,21, A330, 787 and A350's on order. They are combining the 767 domestic and international but still will have 9 fleets.
As far as fleet types all of the big three have a bunch. American has the MD, 737, 757/767 Dom, 7er, 777, E190, A319,20,21, A330, 787 and A350's on order. They are combining the 767 domestic and international but still will have 9 fleets.
05-18-2015, 07:44 AM
#4357
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Position: Lowest Pay I Could Find
Posts: 1,044
I can't take it anymore.
I don't care what the rest of the industry thinks about our contract.
C2012 was not an excellent contract by any stretch. I was a yes vote and I regret it because I now truly belive Delta would be making billions even if we had gotten full restoration on the last contract. I think many of those on this board who lost retirements and dropped 40% of their pay would disagree with your assertion.
The slow climb back up over the last 10 years is hardly something to envy. We have been climbing out of a pit. So I don't care about comparing other airlines who are also just trying to climb out of the pit. I don't think that should be celebrated. There is no pit anymore. Billions are coming in. Management should be trying to make things right after all of these years. I don't think DALPA should be trying to take credit for something management should've done in the first place. We are within spitting distance of getting full restoration but it seems like there are many on here that just can't bring themselves to say the word "restoration".
Why not?
I don't care what the rest of the industry thinks about our contract.
C2012 was not an excellent contract by any stretch. I was a yes vote and I regret it because I now truly belive Delta would be making billions even if we had gotten full restoration on the last contract. I think many of those on this board who lost retirements and dropped 40% of their pay would disagree with your assertion.
The slow climb back up over the last 10 years is hardly something to envy. We have been climbing out of a pit. So I don't care about comparing other airlines who are also just trying to climb out of the pit. I don't think that should be celebrated. There is no pit anymore. Billions are coming in. Management should be trying to make things right after all of these years. I don't think DALPA should be trying to take credit for something management should've done in the first place. We are within spitting distance of getting full restoration but it seems like there are many on here that just can't bring themselves to say the word "restoration".
Why not?
05-18-2015, 08:21 AM
#4358
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
That puts them +/- a fleet type from us and the dog is going away anyway. UA is less and SW is obviously only one. We should compare 737 pilot productivity backing out almost all of our training bubble. Pull all pilots from both airlines that touched training and only use pilots that only needed recurrent. I bet the productivity delta-P gets a lot smaller.
05-18-2015, 12:52 PM
#4360
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Well, the first Family Awareness publication is out. One third of it involves talking about how DALPA has gotten it's contract on time and others haven't. Main takeaway looks to be how important doing things quick is to DALPA.
Carl
Carl
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