Details on Delta TA
#4201
I don't have the C2012 implementation schedule anymore, but maybe someone that still has it can post it. If you want to say that there weren't examples of pro-company things happening immediately and pro-pilot things taking months to "implement", knock yourself out.
See above.
Then why did you ask for examples earlier when you already knew it happened exactly as I said it did?
Carl
See above.
Then why did you ask for examples earlier when you already knew it happened exactly as I said it did?
Carl
#4202
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,108
What's the rush?
The only reason to ink a deal next week (7 months early) is if we meet our goals and make no concessions.
7 months before the amendable date and Council 16 has already surrendered.
I bet Buzz is jealous they beat him to it.
The only reason to ink a deal next week (7 months early) is if we meet our goals and make no concessions.
7 months before the amendable date and Council 16 has already surrendered.
I bet Buzz is jealous they beat him to it.
#4203
Runs with scissors
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Posts: 7,730
Shiz, I think the part about reserves flying more (ALV+15) went into effect immediately after C2012, while the 5:15/dy had to 'wait' until 'Delta Lack of Technology' could reprogram their Commodore 64 to build the trips to that, which I think took them about 5 more months to implement... after the 'heavy' summer flying of course.
#4205
Shiz, I think the part about reserves flying more (ALV+15) went into effect immediately after C2012, while the 5:15/dy had to 'wait' until 'Delta Lack of Technology' could reprogram their Commodore 64 to build the trips to that, which I think took them about 5 more months to implement... after the 'heavy' summer flying of course.
5:15 ADG wasn't part of C2012.
However if you meant this part of C2012:
#4206
No, I wasn't. You are incorrect again. You need to show evidence to support your position; your credibility is your responsibility, not mine.
Last edited by shiznit; 05-12-2015 at 08:13 PM. Reason: Grammar
#4207
You obviously still have a copy of the implementation schedule, so just post it instead of being a d!ck to Timbo.
If anyone else still has a copy of the C2012 implementation schedule, could you please post it?
Carl
#4208
Yes, you were Shiznit. You were also one of the reps that were tossed by your base's pilots due to your complicity with the shameless TA2012 sales job. Own it.
You obviously still have a copy of the implementation schedule, so just post it instead of being a d!ck to Timbo.
If anyone else still has a copy of the C2012 implementation schedule, could you please post it?
Carl
You obviously still have a copy of the implementation schedule, so just post it instead of being a d!ck to Timbo.
If anyone else still has a copy of the C2012 implementation schedule, could you please post it?
Carl
#4209
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: DAL FO
Posts: 2,169
MOU #9 and NN 12-12
I don't have the C2012 implementation schedule anymore, but maybe someone that still has it can post it. If you want to say that there weren't examples of pro-company things happening immediately and pro-pilot things taking months to "implement", knock yourself out.
See above.
Then why did you ask for examples earlier when you already knew it happened exactly as I said it did?
Carl
See above.
Then why did you ask for examples earlier when you already knew it happened exactly as I said it did?
Carl
You are supporting this argument so I asked you to supply some examples which you have still yet to do.
The document you are referring to is MOU #9 Deferred Implementation. I don't know how to attach a pdf here so anyone interested will have to go use the search bar at dal.alpa.org if they want to see it for themselves.
In addition to what shiz posted above, Negotiator's Notepad 12-12 includes the following. Apologies for the format:
Contract 2012 – Implementation Schedule
As with most wholesale changes to the PWA, past and present, not all provisions of the TA, upon ratification, will be effective on July 1, 2012. Provisions such as increases to pay rates, per diem, and DC contributions become effective on the dates specified in the PWA. Other changes will require extensive programming to implement and will be phased in over the 12 months following the effective date of the PWA.
MOU #9 – Deferred Implementation provides a table indicating those provisions whose implementation will be phased in over time. Prior to its deferred effective date, the subject matter of each such provision will be governed by and administered in accordance with the PWA language and practice, if any, in existence immediately prior to July 1, 2012. Such prior language will remain in force and effect and will remain a part of the PWA until deleted or replaced under MOU #9. All other provisions in the PWA are effective on July 1, 2012, unless otherwise specified.
Each effective date shown below is the latest date on which the related provision will become effective. Each provision will be implemented as soon as the requisite programming can be completed. You can expect to receive a Scheduling Alert well in advance of each provision’s implementation with further details.
Please refer to the TA language and/or the related Negotiators’ Notepad for details about the provisions outlined below.
Reserve Guarantee
The increase to reserve guarantee from 70:00 to 72:00 – 80:00 (ALV – 2:00) will be effective on July 1, 2012
The increase to the reserve guarantee of 1:00 for each additional short call above the maximum permitted will not be effective until March 2, 2013
The ability of a reserve pilot to be awarded an additional on-call day(s) with a corresponding increase of a reserve pro rata share to his reserve guarantee will become effective May 1, 2013
A specially created reserve line will continue to have a guarantee of 1/18 of the reserve guarantee until October 1, 2012
Lodging and Expenses
The availability of a hotel room upon request for a pilot who lives more than 50 straight line miles from the training center and who is undergoing CQ training will become effective January 1, 2013
Vacation
The following vacation provisions will become effective with the 2013-2014 vacation year:
o Increase from 3:00 to 3:15 per vacation day
o Bidding for five separate vacation periods for a pilot who has five weeks of
vacation
o Increase in vacation allotment from at least one vacation per week to no less
than one percent of total yearly vacations each week
o Availability of the vacation week that spans the last Sunday in March
through the first Saturday in April
Vacation Any will be implemented as soon as it becomes available in PBS
Deadhead
The enhanced seating assignments for a pilot who is assigned to deadhead on a flight segment of at least 3:45 in a duty period greater than 10 hours will become effective September 1, 2012
The change in report time for all on-line domestic deadhead to 60 minutes will be effective September 1, 2012
Training
The increase in distributed training pay from one minute of pay for every three minutes of run time to one minute of pay for every two minutes of run time will be effective July 1, 2012
The increase in CQ and other miscellaneous types of training from 3:15 to 3:45 per day will be effective January 1, 2013
The increase to the monthly guarantee for a Seniority List Instructor from 15 to 17 SLI duty periods will be effective August 1, 2012
The requirement for a minimum of two days off during any seven consecutive days of training will be effective September 1, 2012
Hours of Service
Average Daily Guarantee of 4:30 per calendar day will be effective November 1, 2012.
The increase in the number of X-days at ALVs below 77:00 (reserve guarantee below 75:00) and in overstaffed categories will be effective October 1, 2012.
Leaves of Absence
Known personal leaves will be effective September 1, 2012.
Sick Leave
The various changes to sick leave will be phased in over the next 12 months. Effective July 1, 2012:
o Expanded eligibility for sick leave due to dental care
o Elimination of Sick Leave Monitoring Program
o Ability for a Chief Pilot to enquire regarding the medical reason for a
pilot’s use of sick leave when an individual circumstance, other than the amount of sick leave used by the pilot or the frequency of his sick occurrences, gives him a good faith basis to do so
o Reimbursement of any reasonable expense incurred by the pilot in obtaining a doctor’s certificate required by the Company
o Restriction of the Company’s ability of a pilot to release his medical records to a Company-designated doctor to times when such an individual circumstance exists
o Requirement to allow a pilot who has exhausted his sick leave no less than seven days to confirm that he will be unavailable for the remaining portion of his line before removing from that line
Effective January 1, 2013:
o Elimination of 75% pay for sick leave and the associated rolling three-year
bank
o Requirement to verify individual sick leave occurrence that is 15 days or
longer
o Ability for a pilot who returns from disability and who has exhausted his
sick leave hours for the current sick leave year to elect to transfer up to 50
hours from the subsequent sick leave year accrual Effective June 1, 2013:
o Sick leave accrual increase to 270 hours for a pilot with at least 20 years of service
o Notification requirement when sick or well
o Increase in pay for known sick or accident leave to the greater of a pro rata
portion of the ALV or reserve guarantee or the pilot’s shadow award in
PBS
o Shadow bidding for known sick/accident leave
o Early return from known sick/accident leave
o Calling in well mid-rotation and sick leave bank replenishment o Pilot option to verify sick at any time
o Requirement to verify sick after 100 hours
Filling of Vacancies
The increase to the top end of the LCW from 82:00 to 84:00 will be effective October 1, 2012. Until that time, the ALV for a position will be limited to 82:00
The TLV, which is a 12-month rolling average of the ALV will increase from 74:00 – 79:00 to 75:00 – 80:00 on July 1, 2013
Effective October 1, 2012, all known absences will be considered in the staffing formula to determine the number of pilots required in a position
Scheduling
Effective September 1, 2012, the extension of an asterisk rotation in the following month’s bid package will be limited to one additional calendar day
The changes to the bid period start and end dates will be effective for the first time in the April 2013 bid period, which will be April 1 – May 1
Effective August 1, 2012, bidding for initial lines of time in PBS will be moved up so as to open at 1800 on the 4th of the prior month and close at 1800 on the 11th of the prior month
The implementation of the RLL line guarantee and corresponding availability will be available effective with the August 2012 bid period
Elimination of the practice known as “Trip Parking” in the Pilot to Pilot Swap Board will be effective October 1, 2012
Changes to max reserve and the point at which a reserve pilot is FULL will be effective December 1, 2012
The seventh short call to which a pilot may be converted in a bid period in which the ALV is 77:00 or higher (reserve guarantee 75:00 or greater) will be effective concurrently with the implementation of the new FARs which reduce the maximum allowable length of a short call to 14 hours
As previously stated, any provision of the TA that is not specifically addressed in MOU #9 and this Notepad or is otherwise stated in the PWA to be effective on a particular date, will be effective on July 1, 2012.
As with most wholesale changes to the PWA, past and present, not all provisions of the TA, upon ratification, will be effective on July 1, 2012. Provisions such as increases to pay rates, per diem, and DC contributions become effective on the dates specified in the PWA. Other changes will require extensive programming to implement and will be phased in over the 12 months following the effective date of the PWA.
MOU #9 – Deferred Implementation provides a table indicating those provisions whose implementation will be phased in over time. Prior to its deferred effective date, the subject matter of each such provision will be governed by and administered in accordance with the PWA language and practice, if any, in existence immediately prior to July 1, 2012. Such prior language will remain in force and effect and will remain a part of the PWA until deleted or replaced under MOU #9. All other provisions in the PWA are effective on July 1, 2012, unless otherwise specified.
Each effective date shown below is the latest date on which the related provision will become effective. Each provision will be implemented as soon as the requisite programming can be completed. You can expect to receive a Scheduling Alert well in advance of each provision’s implementation with further details.
Please refer to the TA language and/or the related Negotiators’ Notepad for details about the provisions outlined below.
Reserve Guarantee
The increase to reserve guarantee from 70:00 to 72:00 – 80:00 (ALV – 2:00) will be effective on July 1, 2012
The increase to the reserve guarantee of 1:00 for each additional short call above the maximum permitted will not be effective until March 2, 2013
The ability of a reserve pilot to be awarded an additional on-call day(s) with a corresponding increase of a reserve pro rata share to his reserve guarantee will become effective May 1, 2013
A specially created reserve line will continue to have a guarantee of 1/18 of the reserve guarantee until October 1, 2012
Lodging and Expenses
The availability of a hotel room upon request for a pilot who lives more than 50 straight line miles from the training center and who is undergoing CQ training will become effective January 1, 2013
Vacation
The following vacation provisions will become effective with the 2013-2014 vacation year:
o Increase from 3:00 to 3:15 per vacation day
o Bidding for five separate vacation periods for a pilot who has five weeks of
vacation
o Increase in vacation allotment from at least one vacation per week to no less
than one percent of total yearly vacations each week
o Availability of the vacation week that spans the last Sunday in March
through the first Saturday in April
Vacation Any will be implemented as soon as it becomes available in PBS
Deadhead
The enhanced seating assignments for a pilot who is assigned to deadhead on a flight segment of at least 3:45 in a duty period greater than 10 hours will become effective September 1, 2012
The change in report time for all on-line domestic deadhead to 60 minutes will be effective September 1, 2012
Training
The increase in distributed training pay from one minute of pay for every three minutes of run time to one minute of pay for every two minutes of run time will be effective July 1, 2012
The increase in CQ and other miscellaneous types of training from 3:15 to 3:45 per day will be effective January 1, 2013
The increase to the monthly guarantee for a Seniority List Instructor from 15 to 17 SLI duty periods will be effective August 1, 2012
The requirement for a minimum of two days off during any seven consecutive days of training will be effective September 1, 2012
Hours of Service
Average Daily Guarantee of 4:30 per calendar day will be effective November 1, 2012.
The increase in the number of X-days at ALVs below 77:00 (reserve guarantee below 75:00) and in overstaffed categories will be effective October 1, 2012.
Leaves of Absence
Known personal leaves will be effective September 1, 2012.
Sick Leave
The various changes to sick leave will be phased in over the next 12 months. Effective July 1, 2012:
o Expanded eligibility for sick leave due to dental care
o Elimination of Sick Leave Monitoring Program
o Ability for a Chief Pilot to enquire regarding the medical reason for a
pilot’s use of sick leave when an individual circumstance, other than the amount of sick leave used by the pilot or the frequency of his sick occurrences, gives him a good faith basis to do so
o Reimbursement of any reasonable expense incurred by the pilot in obtaining a doctor’s certificate required by the Company
o Restriction of the Company’s ability of a pilot to release his medical records to a Company-designated doctor to times when such an individual circumstance exists
o Requirement to allow a pilot who has exhausted his sick leave no less than seven days to confirm that he will be unavailable for the remaining portion of his line before removing from that line
Effective January 1, 2013:
o Elimination of 75% pay for sick leave and the associated rolling three-year
bank
o Requirement to verify individual sick leave occurrence that is 15 days or
longer
o Ability for a pilot who returns from disability and who has exhausted his
sick leave hours for the current sick leave year to elect to transfer up to 50
hours from the subsequent sick leave year accrual Effective June 1, 2013:
o Sick leave accrual increase to 270 hours for a pilot with at least 20 years of service
o Notification requirement when sick or well
o Increase in pay for known sick or accident leave to the greater of a pro rata
portion of the ALV or reserve guarantee or the pilot’s shadow award in
PBS
o Shadow bidding for known sick/accident leave
o Early return from known sick/accident leave
o Calling in well mid-rotation and sick leave bank replenishment o Pilot option to verify sick at any time
o Requirement to verify sick after 100 hours
Filling of Vacancies
The increase to the top end of the LCW from 82:00 to 84:00 will be effective October 1, 2012. Until that time, the ALV for a position will be limited to 82:00
The TLV, which is a 12-month rolling average of the ALV will increase from 74:00 – 79:00 to 75:00 – 80:00 on July 1, 2013
Effective October 1, 2012, all known absences will be considered in the staffing formula to determine the number of pilots required in a position
Scheduling
Effective September 1, 2012, the extension of an asterisk rotation in the following month’s bid package will be limited to one additional calendar day
The changes to the bid period start and end dates will be effective for the first time in the April 2013 bid period, which will be April 1 – May 1
Effective August 1, 2012, bidding for initial lines of time in PBS will be moved up so as to open at 1800 on the 4th of the prior month and close at 1800 on the 11th of the prior month
The implementation of the RLL line guarantee and corresponding availability will be available effective with the August 2012 bid period
Elimination of the practice known as “Trip Parking” in the Pilot to Pilot Swap Board will be effective October 1, 2012
Changes to max reserve and the point at which a reserve pilot is FULL will be effective December 1, 2012
The seventh short call to which a pilot may be converted in a bid period in which the ALV is 77:00 or higher (reserve guarantee 75:00 or greater) will be effective concurrently with the implementation of the new FARs which reduce the maximum allowable length of a short call to 14 hours
As previously stated, any provision of the TA that is not specifically addressed in MOU #9 and this Notepad or is otherwise stated in the PWA to be effective on a particular date, will be effective on July 1, 2012.
#4210
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,994
Several posters have repeatedly suggested that DALPA caved on the implementation schedule in C2012 and that the company always gets their benefit while we always have to wait. This is simply not true.
You are supporting this argument so I asked you to supply some examples which you have still yet to do.
The document you are referring to is MOU #9 Deferred Implementation. I don't know how to attach a pdf here so anyone interested will have to go use the search bar at dal.alpa.org if they want to see it for themselves.
In addition to what shiz posted above, Negotiator's Notepad 12-12 includes the following. Apologies for the format:
You are supporting this argument so I asked you to supply some examples which you have still yet to do.
The document you are referring to is MOU #9 Deferred Implementation. I don't know how to attach a pdf here so anyone interested will have to go use the search bar at dal.alpa.org if they want to see it for themselves.
In addition to what shiz posted above, Negotiator's Notepad 12-12 includes the following. Apologies for the format:
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post