Details on Delta TA
05-12-2015, 02:39 AM
#4151
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: 7ERB
Posts: 2,039
I completely agree that the significant raises you seek are achievable. However, I believe they are achievable after 3-5 years of negotiations. Might as well take the rumored 25% raise over 3 years now since its going to take that long anyway.
Time value of money. If the contract is indeed 3 years, mathematically its very difficult to not leave money on the table turning down a contract so short.
Time value of money. If the contract is indeed 3 years, mathematically its very difficult to not leave money on the table turning down a contract so short.
TEN
05-12-2015, 02:58 AM
#4152
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,111
I completely agree that the significant raises you seek are achievable. However, I believe they are achievable after 3-5 years of negotiations. Might as well take the rumored 25% raise over 3 years now since its going to take that long anyway.
Time value of money. If the contract is indeed 3 years, mathematically its very difficult to not leave money on the table turning down a contract so short.
Time value of money. If the contract is indeed 3 years, mathematically its very difficult to not leave money on the table turning down a contract so short.
05-12-2015, 03:35 AM
#4153
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
I completely agree that the significant raises you seek are achievable. However, I believe they are achievable after 3-5 years of negotiations. Might as well take the rumored 25% raise over 3 years now since its going to take that long anyway.
Time value of money. If the contract is indeed 3 years, mathematically its very difficult to not leave money on the table turning down a contract so short.
Time value of money. If the contract is indeed 3 years, mathematically its very difficult to not leave money on the table turning down a contract so short.
05-12-2015, 04:24 AM
#4154
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: 5-9 block, kill removing
Posts: 385
Council 16 Update
May 11, 2015
During the week of May 4, your MEC met in regular session in Atlanta and spent a considerable amount of time interacting with the Negotiating Committee regarding Contract 2015. These discussions, as well as an extensive session with Richard Anderson and the Delta senior executives, were all conducted in executive session.
As we progress toward a TA, your Council 16 representatives regard the contract survey as our guide, the framework for our future as Delta pilots. While we do not think that we know better than our constituents—we embrace the views reflected in the survey data—you did elect us to know more by virtue of the information to which we have access. The information this week, most often confidential in nature, included briefings from various subject-matter experts, our Pilot Director Ken Rogers, the investment banker Steven Presser who proctored our bankruptcy claim, and Mr. Anderson and his team.
A battle plan never survives first contact with the enemy, or as Mike Tyson so eloquently stated, “Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face.” From the first round of negotiations, portions of our battle plan have fallen by the wayside, others have changed dramatically, and some continue to provide for our strategy going forward. When the time comes to bring the TA to you, our brothers and sisters of LAX, we will be in the lounge and on the road to explain our thought processes, clearly outline our decisions, and discuss the information that influenced those decisions made by the MEC.
We will not be swayed by emotion or fear, nor will we endeavor to lead by popular opinion. In every section of the contract we have utilized the tools at hand, to include the contract survey, e-mails, phone conversations, and feedback gathered from flying the line. These we synthesized with the company business plan to arrive at the best, most value added direction for our negotiators, and ultimately for the pilots of Delta Air Lines.
We are optimistic about reaching an agreement with management that you and the pilots of Delta will embrace, and we are enthusiastic about the progress made thus far.
We look forward to seeing everyone at the next council meeting at the Proud Bird Restaurant, 11022 Aviation Blvd, Los Angeles, CA 90045, on June 11 at 1100.
Fraternally,
Tim, Dan, and Tony
May 11, 2015
During the week of May 4, your MEC met in regular session in Atlanta and spent a considerable amount of time interacting with the Negotiating Committee regarding Contract 2015. These discussions, as well as an extensive session with Richard Anderson and the Delta senior executives, were all conducted in executive session.
As we progress toward a TA, your Council 16 representatives regard the contract survey as our guide, the framework for our future as Delta pilots. While we do not think that we know better than our constituents—we embrace the views reflected in the survey data—you did elect us to know more by virtue of the information to which we have access. The information this week, most often confidential in nature, included briefings from various subject-matter experts, our Pilot Director Ken Rogers, the investment banker Steven Presser who proctored our bankruptcy claim, and Mr. Anderson and his team.
A battle plan never survives first contact with the enemy, or as Mike Tyson so eloquently stated, “Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face.” From the first round of negotiations, portions of our battle plan have fallen by the wayside, others have changed dramatically, and some continue to provide for our strategy going forward. When the time comes to bring the TA to you, our brothers and sisters of LAX, we will be in the lounge and on the road to explain our thought processes, clearly outline our decisions, and discuss the information that influenced those decisions made by the MEC.
We will not be swayed by emotion or fear, nor will we endeavor to lead by popular opinion. In every section of the contract we have utilized the tools at hand, to include the contract survey, e-mails, phone conversations, and feedback gathered from flying the line. These we synthesized with the company business plan to arrive at the best, most value added direction for our negotiators, and ultimately for the pilots of Delta Air Lines.
We are optimistic about reaching an agreement with management that you and the pilots of Delta will embrace, and we are enthusiastic about the progress made thus far.
We look forward to seeing everyone at the next council meeting at the Proud Bird Restaurant, 11022 Aviation Blvd, Los Angeles, CA 90045, on June 11 at 1100.
Fraternally,
Tim, Dan, and Tony
05-12-2015, 05:15 AM
#4155
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
First of all, I'm seeking a hell of a lot more than raises. I'm seeking all the things that we asked for on our survey such as tighter scope, improved work rules, scheduling, vacation, sick leave, retirement and many other items. That's how you get to actually have "The World's Greatest Contract" - you know, like Donutelli preached initially.
Maybe yes, maybe no, but why give up to this "strategy" before our current contract is even amendable? Understand that in this environment, 3 to 5 years of labor unrest hurts management far more than us. The stock price is hurt because management can't make the claims of labor peace, and management must continue to pay out very large profit sharing checks during a time they predict even larger profits.
I know you're new here and have adopted this line of reason from the many DALPA guys who privately espouse it, but you don't know that. See above. When this process began, Donutelli talked consistently about this being our first Section 6 in over a decade and that now we'll get to see DALPA at its finest in achieving the "World's Greatest Contract." Now you're advocating taking anything offered just like C2012 which was done completely outside the Section 6 process?
For pilots like yourself who've never seen a Section 6, you're forgetting about retroactive pay which is always a part of protracted negotiations. But this time, we have circumstance on our side with the need for labor peace and profit sharing which I highlighted above.
You have to decide what you want man. If you want a career of taking whatever management offers because of time value of money, we'll never restore our profession. Never. That's because when the hits come, nobody wants to discuss the time value of lost money. And when you self fund your gains with concessions in other areas, you literally continue to go backwards over time.
Think about this man. Newer pilots like you are the hope for our profession. Many of us older guys made hard choices to keep the profession strong. We didn't just roll over and accept anything. You may need to do the same for our profession. At the very least, don't take confrontation off the table with this time value of money argument. You may as well save your Union dues because you're making the case for no Union at all.
Sorry for the length of this.
Carl
Maybe yes, maybe no, but why give up to this "strategy" before our current contract is even amendable? Understand that in this environment, 3 to 5 years of labor unrest hurts management far more than us. The stock price is hurt because management can't make the claims of labor peace, and management must continue to pay out very large profit sharing checks during a time they predict even larger profits.
You have to decide what you want man. If you want a career of taking whatever management offers because of time value of money, we'll never restore our profession. Never. That's because when the hits come, nobody wants to discuss the time value of lost money. And when you self fund your gains with concessions in other areas, you literally continue to go backwards over time.
Think about this man. Newer pilots like you are the hope for our profession. Many of us older guys made hard choices to keep the profession strong. We didn't just roll over and accept anything. You may need to do the same for our profession. At the very least, don't take confrontation off the table with this time value of money argument. You may as well save your Union dues because you're making the case for no Union at all.
Sorry for the length of this.
Carl
05-12-2015, 05:19 AM
#4156
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
05-12-2015, 05:50 AM
#4158
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,108
[QUOTE=Carl Spackler;1878433]Council 16 Update
May 11, 2015
During the week of May 4, your MEC met in regular session in Atlanta and spent a considerable amount of time interacting with the Negotiating Committee regarding Contract 2015. These discussions, as well as an extensive session with Richard Anderson and the Delta senior executives, were all conducted in executive session.
As we progress toward a TA, your Council 16 representatives regard the contract survey as our guide, the framework for our future as Delta pilots. While we do not think that we know better than our constituents—we embrace the views reflected in the survey data—you did elect us to know more by virtue of the information to which we have access. The information this week, most often confidential in nature, included briefings from various subject-matter experts, our Pilot Director Ken Rogers, the investment banker Steven Presser who proctored our bankruptcy claim, and Mr. Anderson and his team.
A battle plan never survives first contact with the enemy, or as Mike Tyson so eloquently stated, “Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face.” From the first round of negotiations, portions of our battle plan have fallen by the wayside, others have changed dramatically, and some continue to provide for our strategy going forward. When the time comes to bring the TA to you, our brothers and sisters of LAX, we will be in the lounge and on the road to explain our thought processes, clearly outline our decisions, and discuss the information that influenced those decisions made by the MEC.
We will not be swayed by emotion or fear, nor will we endeavor to lead by popular opinion. In every section of the contract we have utilized the tools at hand, to include the contract survey, e-mails, phone conversations, and feedback gathered from flying the line. These we synthesized with the company business plan to arrive at the best, most value added direction for our negotiators, and ultimately for the pilots of Delta Air Lines.
We are optimistic about reaching an agreement with management that you and the pilots of Delta will embrace, and we are enthusiastic about the progress made thus far.
We look forward to seeing everyone at the next council meeting at the Proud Bird Restaurant, 11022 Aviation Blvd, Los Angeles, CA 90045, on June 11 at 1100.
Fraternally,
Tim, Dan, and Tony[/QUOT
IMO the update is so full of circular doublespeak it was written by MP the Shadow MEC Chairman. Surrender monkey POS.
May 11, 2015
During the week of May 4, your MEC met in regular session in Atlanta and spent a considerable amount of time interacting with the Negotiating Committee regarding Contract 2015. These discussions, as well as an extensive session with Richard Anderson and the Delta senior executives, were all conducted in executive session.
As we progress toward a TA, your Council 16 representatives regard the contract survey as our guide, the framework for our future as Delta pilots. While we do not think that we know better than our constituents—we embrace the views reflected in the survey data—you did elect us to know more by virtue of the information to which we have access. The information this week, most often confidential in nature, included briefings from various subject-matter experts, our Pilot Director Ken Rogers, the investment banker Steven Presser who proctored our bankruptcy claim, and Mr. Anderson and his team.
A battle plan never survives first contact with the enemy, or as Mike Tyson so eloquently stated, “Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face.” From the first round of negotiations, portions of our battle plan have fallen by the wayside, others have changed dramatically, and some continue to provide for our strategy going forward. When the time comes to bring the TA to you, our brothers and sisters of LAX, we will be in the lounge and on the road to explain our thought processes, clearly outline our decisions, and discuss the information that influenced those decisions made by the MEC.
We will not be swayed by emotion or fear, nor will we endeavor to lead by popular opinion. In every section of the contract we have utilized the tools at hand, to include the contract survey, e-mails, phone conversations, and feedback gathered from flying the line. These we synthesized with the company business plan to arrive at the best, most value added direction for our negotiators, and ultimately for the pilots of Delta Air Lines.
We are optimistic about reaching an agreement with management that you and the pilots of Delta will embrace, and we are enthusiastic about the progress made thus far.
We look forward to seeing everyone at the next council meeting at the Proud Bird Restaurant, 11022 Aviation Blvd, Los Angeles, CA 90045, on June 11 at 1100.
Fraternally,
Tim, Dan, and Tony[/QUOT
IMO the update is so full of circular doublespeak it was written by MP the Shadow MEC Chairman. Surrender monkey POS.
05-12-2015, 05:53 AM
#4159
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,108
I completely agree that the significant raises you seek are achievable. However, I believe they are achievable after 3-5 years of negotiations. Might as well take the rumored 25% raise over 3 years now since its going to take that long anyway.
Time value of money. If the contract is indeed 3 years, mathematically its very difficult to not leave money on the table turning down a contract so short.
Time value of money. If the contract is indeed 3 years, mathematically its very difficult to not leave money on the table turning down a contract so short.
Why are we going to rush into concessions during record profits?
05-12-2015, 05:55 AM
#4160
New Hire
Joined APC: Jan 2015
Position: Concourse A
Posts: 785
thats my concern..whats on the horizon? Large group 1 aircraft order? Another MA? JV deals? Besides slowing down our large PS checks this year there has gotta be another reason this is moving at Mach 3.
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