scambo1

4 99 3 is normal for 777 reserve bidding. Next month in Dtw, it is 4 99 2. ATL is 4 99 3 though. So it's good.

Frikkin peasants.

FlyZ

The good thing is, we should be getting a balanced piece from ALPA (Anti-Labor Pilots Association) soon. It will discuss, on one hand, the pros of the agreement, and on the other hand, the good things about it. It will be a truly neutral, glossy document, giving you both reasons to vote yes, while also providing the reasons why not to vote no. So be looking for that in your emailbox.

gzsg

Classic..

Have you stopped beating your wife?

Carl Spackler

Carl

Herkflyr

I hardly favor head first appeasement. In fact I am still ****ed at MDs "learn to say yes" comment.

I still contend however that you and PD (and a few others) are determined to find the dark lining in a silver cloud, don't really want a yes worthy TA (because what's the fun in voting yes?) and always know what DALPA should have done yesterday, but if pressed for specifics couldn't come up with a concrete solution for tomorrow.

We both want the same thing, a stellar contract. I believe that our reps are hard workers doing their best to get the most for all of us. You don't seem to feel that way.

Sink r8

Except for one glaring problem, of course, which is that the CDO's weren't leaked. They showed up in a TA, without any advanced warning, which is when the revolution occurred.

I think the smartest non-affiliated participants on APC have figured out that 85% of what happens here is simply a spillover of the ALPA forum, which was evidence of a power struggle between two factions, vaguely along the lines of NvS, with a few variations.

You guys really think that all just went away?

Carl Spackler

I don't want you to be p!ssed about Donutelli's comment, I want you to pay attention to it. He's been telegraphing his views and attempts to reshape our definition of "The World's Greatest Contract for quite some now. That was just his latest version of doing so.

I don't look for dark clouds or silver linings Herk. I look at the evidence that comes our way and try to determine the truth from it. That's exactly what I'm doing now, and the truth is looking to be exactly what some of us have been saying the evidence is pointing to.

I absolutely agree that most of our reps are doing their best. No question. The problem is that our MEC administration is absolutely planning to minimize their influence and cut them out of any relevance to our process...exactly like C2012. How our reps react to this is going to be very important for the future of their own relevance.

Carl

Carl Spackler

Rumors of CDO's came out before the TA Sink. But regardless, it doesn't change what happened here. The person who leaked this is either a negotiator who believes in the proper role of our reps, or a rep himself who got access to the information. Their hope is that members (through their reps) will try to head this off before the NC actually signs the TA. There's a huge difference between a signed TA in Section 6, and a signed TA that only needs MEC ratification.

I wasn't a member nor did I ever visit the ALPA forum. I suspect I'm not alone.

Carl

gzsg

I admit I thought maybe DALPA had turned the corner and the MEC was in charge. Silly me.

IMO this rumor is spot on. The shadow MEC is alive and well. They crafted this leak with management and probably have the votes in the bag to pass this self funding POS. Another rush job filled with unnecessary concessions. Not the least of which will be helping management pay zero for the KLM/AF grievance.

Before the body is cold our execs will say it was cost neutral and their 2016 labor costs will increase less than 2%. The usual suspects will say management has to lie to the shareholders like this, but we really won!!

We can turn the tide like we did for CDOs, but the pilots in ATL, SLC, LAX and SEA have to make the calls. These reps hold our futures.

Tell them to honor our surveys as they promised to.

We can and must do far better than this.

NO PROFIT SHARING REDUCTIONS
KEEP AF/KLM SETTLEMENT SEPERATE
2004 HOURLY RATES PLUS DATE OF SIGNING

WHAT IS THE RUSH?

Sink r8

vs.

Those things can't both be right, can they?

We're up to our eyeballs in "leaks", and so far the thing they have in common is that they support one group of people or another. They don't really help the group. In the case where there was a mild uprising (CDO's), there was no warning. Then we've seen cases where rumors failed to materialize entirely. Which makes them selective, and not particularly accurate.

I think the cliffnotes are pretty obvious: the MEC doesn't play all that well together. Guys are tripping over themselves to accuse each other of various misdeeds, and they've been selectively passing bits of information, in a mixture of true and false, to like-minded friends, in order to shape opinion. That's what's going on.