Timbo

Do NOT bring any of that Pabst sh!t!

Timbo

Do you have any idea, how Airline Pilot Pay got to be right up there with Doctor's and Lawyers pay, in the first place?

Any idea how many pilot groups had to strike against management teams who tried to get them to fly more, for less?

Any idea of how many of our own guys committed suicide when they were laid off in 2001? Any clue at all as to what it has taken to get to where we are today?

Here's a hint, Proactive Appeasement did NOT bring Airline Pilot Pay up above buss driver pay.

If you are not willing to fight for restoration, you don't deserve it.

badflaps

Having seen the complete show, what Timbo says is the word. Them boys will roll right over you, given the chance.

Flying Elvis

As a very new line puke in the latter category, and someone who has great interest and historically little success in avoiding involvement in workplace politics, I agree that it's hard to get us newbies motivated to throw the BS flag in what is a darned good deal.

But for those like me who are just so dang happy about not wearing tan, spending the morning brushing sand out of your teeth and flushing it out of your nostrils, and peeing in a bag, and especially those like me who are free of those things and have the bonus of being in the check-of-the-month club, please also remember this: You did all that crap not just for what you got out of the experience but also to serve others. And even if you weren't all jingoistic and altruistic, you were ready to fight if for no other reason than the people on your left and right wing (and on the ground).

I've got lots of wingmen who have been here at DAL much longer than me. Many of them sacrificed a lot of their future to save this company, hoping there might be restoration when times got better. By doing so, they saved a place for me in the cockpit, and provided food on my table.

Times are better. Restoration is in order. Look beyond your own kneeboard and outside the window for why.

If the leaked rumors are true, and especially if some of the leadership are considering those concessions, we are going the wrong way, and I'm going to find myself exactly where I don't want to be - smack dab in the middle of this damned politics thing. I hope to see a lot of my newbie contemporaries alongside me, as well as you wiser more experienced people.

I've written my local rep. I entreat you all to join me.

The "best contract on the planet" is our target. And that best contract better make our wingmen whole.

ERflyer

That is true to a point. Management will roll over you but each situation is unique. I believe our current series of gains is unique and these are slightly different times.

One does not head into negotiations in our current situation angling for a strike. That endgame would come much later if we would be released by the NMB after having them push us - for years - to come to a solution. Is waiting for years something you would like?

Or would you at least prefer to negotiate first and see what could be gained. It seems that Delta is flush with cash and would likewise prefer to negotiate.

To bring up going on strike 7 1/2 months prior to our amendable date is . . . foolhardy . . . to put it mildly.

ERflyer

I absolutely agree that there should not be any concessions.

Not on sick leave.

Not in productivity.

The bottom portion of profit sharing could be monetized however as that is a wash. Same money in my pocket as before. It would however undercut the other empoyee groups at Delta as I doubt they'd get offsetting raises too. It would save Delta money which we should get credit for and it would NOT be a pay raise nor called one like last time. It's a wash.

DeadHead

Why is saying NO automatically mean we are going on strike?
I believe saying it is only one step, of many, before we get to the point.

ERflyer

You want a retirement debate?

I'd like to have $3M in my own name like American had before it changed recently. Good on them. Those guys bailed like rats on a sinking ship when their plan changed.

You want to discuss fNWA frozen DB plans? Or the run on the fDelta DB? That is all a very long discussion. I think our former contract screwed us and we should have had retirement in our own name since I was hired. Like American. Didn't happen.

Again, this could go on for pages. Some say (people smarter than me like the former R&I chairmen) that if you took your MPPP, your note money, Roth rollover legislation, invested wisely (everyone is "wise" the last six years) and add it to your PBGC - it's a wash. The one good thing about a DB is it prevents dummies from being dumb with their retirement money - which some people obviously have been. I don't think it's a good thing that USA has drifted away from DB's in general.

But I did read an article that said if you just leave your money in a target date retirement fund, like 2050, or what whatever your retirement day is, and don't mess with it, you'll do just fine. And that's what many people are sucessfully doing. However, with interest rates super low and heading up at some point, bonds will really hurt someone in a 2020 retirement date fund, at this point in time.

So, our retirement is now directed by us and most people are not great investors. But that's where we all are now.

But how was the rest of the American contract strategy?

And would you prefer to be at American - on balance? Sorry. More questions.

index

Wait. That's your idea of how this works??? You think we would end up with less by asking for more? But by asking for less, under your surrender strategy, we will end up with more? BIZARRE. It's no wonder we're screwed.

ERflyer

Not by asking for more. Don't be ridiculous. By asking for an amount that no one would EVER agree to.

Like when you're negotiating to buy a house. You low ball and the other person just walks away. A true negotiating strategy is to ask for something that will clearly benefit you but so much as to totally sour the entire negotiations.