Details on Delta TA
08-05-2014, 01:03 PM
#361
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Your argument continues to appear insipid when you continue to repeat that it was a cost neutral deal. in.si.pi.d Make a legitimate point without a talking point. Your agenda points continue to make you irrelevant. You have an opportunity, and you are blowing it Jerry.
08-05-2014, 01:16 PM
#362
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,619
I hear what you are saying, but look at the reality. The disrespect.
Management couldn't delay a couple of days and inform the pilot group of the parking of the 747s?
Management's behavior on FAR 117?
A330 rest facilities?
$2.75 billion in a second round of buy backs/dividends to the shareholder and the pilot concessions stay in place?
What am I missing?
There is no balance.
Jerry
Management couldn't delay a couple of days and inform the pilot group of the parking of the 747s?
Management's behavior on FAR 117?
A330 rest facilities?
$2.75 billion in a second round of buy backs/dividends to the shareholder and the pilot concessions stay in place?
What am I missing?
There is no balance.
Jerry
We have had consistent annual returns even when it put us far out of our peers market. Please let me know what reasons there are for the differences between the left side of the chart and the right side of the chart. In my mind, we shook up the industry so much that even with those massive pay raises, they still have not caught up to us. I am sure you have a better explanation. Look at all those zeros on the left side of the chart and give me some explanation for those.
At the time of the merger, your A-320 pay rate was $139.00 per hour with an average of 6% defined contribution rate for an effective rate of $147.34. Now you have a pay rate of $203.21 with a 15% DC and an effective rate of $233.69. That is an $86,000 per year increase in 5 years and an average of almost 12% per year. I am not sure if you have paid any attention at all to the rest of the world during the last 5 years, but if you went to almost anyone who is not a professional athlete, you would find looks of shock and disbelief if you tried to convince them that nothing good has happened to you lately.
08-05-2014, 01:56 PM
#364
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
OK, then stop the cryptic busschit and explain it then oh exalted one. How are 3 whales going to the desert, that are paid the top payrate not going to result in pilots being displaced... and THEN result in a cascade of paycuts for an increased number of pilots below them? I don't give a chit about your waterfall scenario wrt training events. There will be guys who will be making less per hour. THAT in my part of this life is a paycut. Explain it differently, and without the black helicopters.
08-05-2014, 01:59 PM
#365
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2009
Position: C560XL/XLS/XLS+
Posts: 1,278
One thing left put of this "draconian" pay cut scenario is the fact that we now get profit sharing while we didn't with C2k. My highest earning year 2004, I made $235,556. In 2005 it was $198,863. 2007 was $366,264, which included the silos and note but also the 401k fillup. 2008-$207365. 2009-$199,141. 2010 $224,374. 2012-$226,078. 2013-$299,524. YTD as of 7/31/2014-$198372. Hardly draconian pay cuts. I also received over 4000 shares of DAL stock post merger which are now worth over $145,000. The PBGC annuity I am going to receive at age 65 is going to be over $6400 per month, which is more than my frozen DB annuity of about $5500 per month. Sorry but I don't feel like I've been screwed since I also have well ober $1M in retirement savings helped by the 415c fillup.
08-05-2014, 02:04 PM
#366
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2014
Posts: 14
Wow. That gets the "cherry pick of the year" award.
08-05-2014, 02:12 PM
#367
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
One thing left put of this "draconian" pay cut scenario is the fact that we now get profit sharing while we didn't with C2k. My highest earning year 2004, I made $235,556. In 2005 it was $198,863. 2007 was $366,264, which included the silos and note but also the 401k fillup. 2008-$207365. 2009-$199,141. 2010 $224,374. 2012-$226,078. 2013-$299,524. YTD as of 7/31/2014-$198372. Hardly draconian pay cuts. I also received over 4000 shares of DAL stock post merger which are now worth over $145,000. The PBGC annuity I am going to receive at age 65 is going to be over $6400 per month, which is more than my frozen DB annuity of about $5500 per month. Sorry but I don't feel like I've been screwed since I also have well ober $1M in retirement savings helped by the 415c fillup.
In my small piece of the world, I took major hits in take home pay from DAL. Now (777fo), I am above where I was then (765FO), in take home pay. However, there were a number of intervening years (8) where it was my outside (of DAL) activities that kept life good.
Your point, in the court of public opinion, is well made though.
I guess its not fashionable to value ones craft as much now as we did 10 plus years ago.
08-05-2014, 02:30 PM
#368
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2009
Position: C560XL/XLS/XLS+
Posts: 1,278
The paycuts were draconian in their percentages. Additionally, we fund our retirement plans (with assistance from the company). This also diminishes buying power.
In my small piece of the world, I took major hits in take home pay from DAL. Now (777fo), I am above where I was then (765FO), in take home pay. However, there were a number of intervening years (8) where it was my outside (of DAL) activities that kept life good.
Your point, in the court of public opinion, is well made though.
I guess its not fashionable to value ones craft as much now as we did 10 plus years ago.
In my small piece of the world, I took major hits in take home pay from DAL. Now (777fo), I am above where I was then (765FO), in take home pay. However, there were a number of intervening years (8) where it was my outside (of DAL) activities that kept life good.
Your point, in the court of public opinion, is well made though.
I guess its not fashionable to value ones craft as much now as we did 10 plus years ago.
08-05-2014, 02:48 PM
#369
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,619
08-05-2014, 02:54 PM
#370
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,619
Cherry picking? Really? How stupid do you think the company or the NMB are? Defined contributions are direct cash payments to your retirement accounts. As I said before, if you don't think it has any value, then send me the money. Otherwise, quit trying to pretend it has no value. Where do you think the money to make those contributions comes from? The DC Fairy? Or the company? Why don't you ask some 28 year old new hire whether he values the 15% DC or not.
Look, I understand all the rules of webboard arguments and your talking points. If you want to negotiate in the real world with real adults, then you need to pull your head out and understand that going from 6% DC to 15% DC is just the same as getting a 9% pay raise. If you try to pretend that it doesn't have any value, then real adults will look at you as if you are insane.
Look, I understand all the rules of webboard arguments and your talking points. If you want to negotiate in the real world with real adults, then you need to pull your head out and understand that going from 6% DC to 15% DC is just the same as getting a 9% pay raise. If you try to pretend that it doesn't have any value, then real adults will look at you as if you are insane.
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