Details on Delta TA
08-05-2014, 05:40 AM
#331
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2008
Posts: 272
Shiz
You asked my seat/year/rate in 2004.
757A/19th year/$256/hr plus inflation you do the math.
This was 10 years ago so I'm not positive. John Parker posted one of my NWA forum posts from 6 years ago on the other forum so I'm sure you can verify the data above for us.
Date of signing 20% plus some inflation is more than fair. It's not enough, but it is fair. Assuming we don't touch our profit sharing.
Jerry
You asked my seat/year/rate in 2004.
757A/19th year/$256/hr plus inflation you do the math.
This was 10 years ago so I'm not positive. John Parker posted one of my NWA forum posts from 6 years ago on the other forum so I'm sure you can verify the data above for us.
Date of signing 20% plus some inflation is more than fair. It's not enough, but it is fair. Assuming we don't touch our profit sharing.
Jerry
08-05-2014, 06:31 AM
#333
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
While I cannot speak for how communications affect anyone else, these are the pieces that raise my expectations for C2015:
PUB events -- MD regularly talks about the fact that, while we've made progress over the past ten years to recoup some of our losses, we still have a long way to go
PUB events -- MD regularly talks about the fact that, while we've made progress over the past ten years to recoup some of our losses, we still have a long way to go
Contract History -- the financial timeline in the front shows us finally having reached a similar level of profitability (relative to size) as Delta had prior to C2K, and being well above that level in actual dollars; now that our profitability is at or above where we were in the late 90's, I expect similar results
Contract History Summary -- the 777A pay chart shows what I saw in MD's PUB presentation -- although we've made some progress toward restoration, we're not nearly finished, as you have to include profit sharing to even get us close to 2004 in real dollars, let alone restore that year's buying power; I expect significant strides toward that goal
Contract Comparison -- with CAL and USAir gone, the industry landscape is MUCH better than it was for C2012; our major competitors are no longer dragging us down, but pushing us up instead, and they have book rates that are higher than ours in the year or two after our amendable date; this leads me to expect increases significantly greater than those in C2012
Contract History Summary -- the 777A pay chart shows what I saw in MD's PUB presentation -- although we've made some progress toward restoration, we're not nearly finished, as you have to include profit sharing to even get us close to 2004 in real dollars, let alone restore that year's buying power; I expect significant strides toward that goal
Contract Comparison -- with CAL and USAir gone, the industry landscape is MUCH better than it was for C2012; our major competitors are no longer dragging us down, but pushing us up instead, and they have book rates that are higher than ours in the year or two after our amendable date; this leads me to expect increases significantly greater than those in C2012
I'm glad you're optimistic, Alan, (and more importantly, I'm glad to know you agree with restoration as the objective) but I think you're being extremely naive given the reality of the predominant thinking within our MEC.
08-05-2014, 06:57 AM
#334
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,108
While I cannot speak for how communications affect anyone else, these are the pieces that raise my expectations for C2015:
PUB events -- MD regularly talks about the fact that, while we've made progress over the past ten years to recoup some of our losses, we still have a long way to go
Contract History -- the financial timeline in the front shows us finally having reached a similar level of profitability (relative to size) as Delta had prior to C2K, and being well above that level in actual dollars; now that our profitability is at or above where we were in the late 90's, I expect similar results
Contract History Summary -- the 777A pay chart shows what I saw in MD's PUB presentation -- although we've made some progress toward restoration, we're not nearly finished, as you have to include profit sharing to even get us close to 2004 in real dollars, let alone restore that year's buying power; I expect significant strides toward that goal
Contract Comparison -- with CAL and USAir gone, the industry landscape is MUCH better than it was for C2012; our major competitors are no longer dragging us down, but pushing us up instead, and they have book rates that are higher than ours in the year or two after our amendable date; this leads me to expect increases significantly greater than those in C2012
PUB events -- MD regularly talks about the fact that, while we've made progress over the past ten years to recoup some of our losses, we still have a long way to go
Contract History -- the financial timeline in the front shows us finally having reached a similar level of profitability (relative to size) as Delta had prior to C2K, and being well above that level in actual dollars; now that our profitability is at or above where we were in the late 90's, I expect similar results
Contract History Summary -- the 777A pay chart shows what I saw in MD's PUB presentation -- although we've made some progress toward restoration, we're not nearly finished, as you have to include profit sharing to even get us close to 2004 in real dollars, let alone restore that year's buying power; I expect significant strides toward that goal
Contract Comparison -- with CAL and USAir gone, the industry landscape is MUCH better than it was for C2012; our major competitors are no longer dragging us down, but pushing us up instead, and they have book rates that are higher than ours in the year or two after our amendable date; this leads me to expect increases significantly greater than those in C2012
Good points.
Like others I will feel much better when MD communicates to all the pilots and management.
Not radical chest pounding. Just factual and professional.
Captain Malone was outstanding at this.
The silence and lack of leadership is not helping our cause.
In my opinion.
Jerry
08-05-2014, 06:59 AM
#335
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,108
08-05-2014, 07:55 AM
#336
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: right for a long, long time
Posts: 2,642
Shiz
You asked my seat/year/rate in 2004.
757A/19th year/$256/hr plus inflation you do the math.
This was 10 years ago so I'm not positive. John Parker posted one of my NWA forum posts from 6 years ago on the other forum so I'm sure you can verify the data above for us.
Date of signing 20% plus some inflation is more than fair. It's not enough, but it is fair. Assuming we don't touch our profit sharing.
Jerry
You asked my seat/year/rate in 2004.
757A/19th year/$256/hr plus inflation you do the math.
This was 10 years ago so I'm not positive. John Parker posted one of my NWA forum posts from 6 years ago on the other forum so I'm sure you can verify the data above for us.
Date of signing 20% plus some inflation is more than fair. It's not enough, but it is fair. Assuming we don't touch our profit sharing.
Jerry
The Nov. 2004 12yr 757 CA was $186.97 after the cut.
The post-BK cut dropped to $142.28 in 2007...ouch.
Am I sourcing the correct contract info for you?
08-05-2014, 08:15 AM
#337
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2013
Posts: 106
Having said that, what is the relevence of the NWA rates in 2004? Unless of course your unspoken agenda is to make a jab at fNWA guys for how bad the rates got in BK and therefore how happy they should be even with current DAL rates. What would that accomplish?
We're all DAL now, like it or not, and since Delta was the surviving company following the merger, it seems to me that we should all be focused on improving the contract at Delta. Unless of course you're actually that PTC guy from the old Dalpa forum that smugly stated that fNWA's "got Their restoration at the merger" and should not be allowed to comment on the concept of restoration at DAL.
If so, let's just say I find that attitude inconsistent with unity and the goal of improving our PWA.
08-05-2014, 08:29 AM
#338
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
In case you didn't know... Jerry works for Delta now. The Delta 757 CA rate in 2004 was $267.52. Adjusted for inflation, that would be $335.92 today.
Current Delta 757 CA rate is $219.62. That is a 34.6% pay cut (a $116 per hour pay cut!) in the buying power of that rate.
To bring the current rate up to the buying power of the 2004 rate, it would have to be increased by $116... a 52% increase.
And before you go all "C2K was unsustainable.. blah blah blah" on me. Let's look at the same comparison, but with the 1986 rate for example (because I happen to have those rates):
1986 Delta 757 CA rate: $158.21
Adjusted for inflation to today: $342.55
So (for those of you in Rio Linda/Herndon), that is a $123/hour (or 35.9%) pay cut in buying power.
Delta can absolutely afford to pay us at the 2004 level. They just have to make it a priority. But they certainly aren't going to be compelled to do that if we act like we're okay with just a little better than what we have now. We need leadership that truly values our profession and doesn't believe we're worth any less today than we were throughout most of the 1980's, 1990's, and early 2000's. When do you think we're going to get that kind of leadership? Do you see it happening before C2015 or do we need to write that one off too?
08-05-2014, 08:49 AM
#339
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Yeah Jerry,
No pay banding. Let all those whale and 777 guys take the lion's share of paycuts, I couldn't care less about them anyway. Besides, it won't flow downhill.
So there.
No pay banding. Let all those whale and 777 guys take the lion's share of paycuts, I couldn't care less about them anyway. Besides, it won't flow downhill.
So there.
Last edited by tsquare; 08-05-2014 at 09:05 AM.
08-05-2014, 08:56 AM
#340
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Position: DAL A320 CA
Posts: 559
Speaking of C2K 2004 rates..hearing a rumor that RA wants another early deal to validate the "labor peace" advantage to Wall St. and has floated the idea of 2004 pay (not adjusted for inflation) for a 3yr extension to our current PWA.
Can anybody else corroborate?
Can anybody else corroborate?
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