OldFlyGuy

I've seen nothing "put out" by anyone except Forum rumors. Why would the MEC be "manipulated" by a few "insiders"? insiders of what? Would either management or DALPA float trial balloons this early? Probably, but is that insider manipulation? or just part of their job--feeling out the situation? There are 2 sides here whether we like it or not. Negotiation vs dictation. I'd like C2K wages at DOS. That's about 18%ish.. ignoring profit sharing. Is it doable without monetizing some of the Profit Sharing? I dunno. There is probably some value to the company to get her done for our C15. I can easily see DAL wanting to reduce profit sharing and call it a raise; but I can't see them just rolling over to whatever we demand nor killing profit sharing completely. CAN the company come up with the cash vs WILL THEY is the question. Re fuel, DAL will lose its arse on fuel hedging 2015.. they said that already. 2016... could be interesting.. will they hedge to the lower price? or stop hedging? will gas to back up or go to $20? What would a Forum insider do? Answers will be forthcoming. OFG

NYRANGERS

Agreed. If we can't get substantial gains on this contract, then we really need to rethink the need for a traditional union. I get the feeling that many of our union leaders (guys at the top) don't really think of themselves as airline pilots, thus we get what they think is good enough for us. American had their hands tied in their merger agreement to have a basically cost neutral contract, they don't have much leverage. No excuses ALPA, lead the way to restore this profession or get out of the way and come back to fly the line.

NYR

gzsg

With all due respect, your post says it all. You are questioning if we can get hourly rates that are over a.decade old while Delta will make well over $5 billion in 2015.

This is why we are doomed. Somehow execs get 700% and we can't get 10 year old rates.

Jerry

Purple Drank

No. Donatelli is the source for those rumors.

Why would the company need to "hint at changing profit sharing" when "our" "union's" MEC Chairman will do it for them ? (tweeted today)
Is anyone (sailingfun, Oberon, etc) still going to claim profit sharing is not on the table for C15?

Sink r8

I've started a thread on this because I think there is an alternate way of looking at his comments. I know you're sort of spring-loaded to see something ominous in everything the union does. I'm usually skeptical of most public statements, no matter the source, but it makes no sense for the union to be making such concessionary noises so early. Since it also makes zero sense for us to talk up the at-risk part of our compensation while it's high, and since Donatelli isn't a moron or a lap-dog, I think there might be another way to look at this.

sailingfun

At the amendable date American will be getting 10% more pay then delta rates. We are going to want rates higher then that. At least I do. The company is not going to want to pay that higher rate and will justify it by the profit sharing. There needs to be no question at all that it's at risk compensation that does not impact base rates. That's simply being smart.

gzsg

Sink

I don't Twitter and it's odd that MD chooses this communication method.

I read all 5 tweets from him.

Taken together they were strong and positive. I want to give him the benefit of the doubt that he meant profit sharing is off the table. That PS gets us all rowing together. Management and labor.

Jerry

Sink r8

That's a pretty funny backhand, and I mean it sincerely.

I don't like tweets either, and this discussions shows why. I had to go to the ALPA website to read them anyway. In the aggregate, they're very positive. In terms of the PS, it's ambiguous.

You're sort of leading the charge on this PS thing, just as you were on the Pay Banding. If you're incorrect, we're really not helping our own cause with public histrionics. I understand that many are spring-loaded to assume the worse, but if these guys are actually just doing their job correctly, trying to pre-empt negotiations could be a costly move. We've made them before. I heard a rumor about a guy who leaked something substantial about a negotiating position in a past TA, and ended up taking one of the most crucial items OFF the table.

gzsg

There is a delicate balance. With regard to profit sharing I think it is important to spread the word. Reps need to hear from us. Like CDOs, our calls and emails will carry the day.

IMO there is way too much insider talk at PUB events and the crew room about trading profit sharing. It much be fought against. The insiders show their hands every time.

In C2012, they did the same early leaking how wonderful it would be to have 70 more 76 seat RJs. It doesn't matter whether we liked C2012 or not. What matters is they leak as they try to sell their program.

I think we are doing a great job fighting any reduction in PS. We need to stay on it. And I agree, internally is best.

Sink r8

Fair enough.