Purple Drank

does that include your side business?

dalad

Once you reach the 415C limit, the company pays you an additional 15% as straight pay making my effective rate for the last 4-5 months $253 an hour for this year. The early profit sharing was worth 15K for me. I am at 275k now.

Spudhauler

I'm glad oil is down, but your bottom line statement assumes it won't change at all over the next year. Not very likely. Agree with the major gains, though. We are overdue.

iahflyr

Remember that the purpose of a publicly traded company like Delta is to return value to the shareholders.

You are correct that Delta management is incentivized to keep the share price going higher. That is their job. You are incorrect in saying that by doing things to increase the share price such as dividends or share buybacks (or as you call it the "shareholder value bonfire"), they are transferring money away from Delta's future. Your future as an employee will be much better off with a higher stock price. If Delta's stock price crashes, management will be under more pressure from shareholders and the board of the directors to cut costs to increase profitability. That means less pay, longer hours, and worse work rules for you.

I still don't understand why Delta profit sharing isn't paid out in Delta stock. That would be the best way to align the interests of management, employees, and share holders.

If you're concerned about that "shareholder value bonfire", why don't you go out and buy some Delta stock?? Every analyst in the world has it rated a buy. It's been on a tear for the past 3 years. And now the price of oil has just crashed more than 20% in the past 3 months.

Purple Drank

Delta has taken our cooperation for granted. They think we will work for whatever they offer plus a few "attaboys."

We need the credible threat of labor discord if we are serious about maximizing our career earnings.

My future earnings potential and manhood each get exponentially smaller every time RA says "labor risk is off the table." And let's be honest...I can't afford a reduction in either.

Where is MD to put the pressure on management? Where is the leadership? Where is the fire in his belly we were promised when he was elected? So far, we've seen nothing from him that sets him apart from Moak or O'Malley; nothing but tepid letters and empty words.

Carl Spackler

Care to actually respond to the point of the posts?

Carl

Jughead135

Say again?

Understood that the 15% comes as taxable pay once the limit is reached. Isn't that just a question of where the same total amount of money went? In order to reach the limit, money that would otherwise have shown up in your checking account instead showed up in your DPSP--on a dollar-for-dollar basis. In other words, the total amount of income that qualifies for 15% company contribution is unchanged, and 15% of that amount is 15%, regardless of in what form it's paid.

Yes/no? I'm new, and I'd LOVE to be wrong about this. Are you saying perhaps that the 15% earns its own 15% when it's paid directly? (Not my understanding of how it works, but again, happy to learn if I'm wrong!)

Carl Spackler

Sadly, there's not. Apple is trying very hard to focus on the long term, but Carl Icahn has bought a stake and wants it to double...via any means possible. It's an illustration of the problem in most US corporate governance cultures.

They're both Japanese companies and they both take the very long term view. Same with Chinese companies. Sadly, most US companies don't want the battles they inevitably face with short term institutional "investors" if they try to take a longer term view.

Carl

80ktsClamp

You're not being paid an extra 15%. Just instead of going into your 401k and not taxable, it goes in with the rest of your normal paycheck and is taxable.

Carl Spackler

The disagreement is whether the value sought should be short term or long term.

That's not their job. That kind of short term thinking generally leads to short term longevity in business. Management's job is to ensure a long term and profitable entity. Good share pricing generally follows from that philosophy.

There's no other way to look at it iahflyr. Stock buy backs and dividends do nothing for a company's future. It buys no R&D, employees or equipment. It is a complete waste.

That's incorrect. My future will be better off with a healthy company with good management and a solid business plan. Allegiant has an extraordinarily high stock price...but I wouldn't want to fly for them. Would you?

If Delta's stock price crashes without an underlying fundamental reason, it would represent a huge buying opportunity that many investors would see...thus reversing the price crash. If there is an underlying fundamental reason for the crash, no dividend or stock buy back will save you.

I'm a contrarian investor who hates airlines as investments. That's just me.

Carl