Alan Shore

Agreed....

Carl Spackler

Fine, I'll man up. I screwed up by saying 2% instead of 1.9%. I'll promptly beat myself about the head and shoulders with a blunt object for that error. After I heal up, I will endeavor to do better.

Now, how about an answer to this question...since tsquare refuses to answer:

Carl

gloopy

There have been many many trillions of fake money created and pumped into the economy at essentially zero interest, and especially the stock market for them to play with. All of that is a huge debt trap later. We have a lot of big, hungry chickens that will "come home to roost" as a certain someone's beloved mentor has phrased it.

Its an understatement to call it burning the furniture to heat the house. Its more like burning the house to heat the house. When reality sets it, its going to suck. A lot.

I'm glad we're paying down debt but I think its a huge mistake down the road for us to be throwing billions onto the bonfire of "shareholder return" when we still have so much more work to do with debt, future capex, employee investment and much still needed infrastructure. In the long run that would do more for share prices than the current short burst of multi billion dollar purging.

Carl Spackler

It's not arguable sailingfun. We signed the new contract in Summer of 2012. It's amendable on January 1, 2016. That's 3.5 years.

First, who asked anyone to feel bad for anyone?
Second, comparing pay rates only, with pay rates plus DC plus profit sharing is disingenuous. Everyone (except you) will see that.
Third, what does any of that have to do with ALPA's E&FA guys recommending an acceptance of 3%, 3% during these wildly profitable times?

Carl

Spudhauler

[QUOTE=sailingfun;1749284]Why do you constantly do this effective rate nonsense? Carl had a pension when you are taking about his 178 per hour, so if you are going to use profit sharing, which you shouldn't, and the DC plan, please include his pension. Also, you're comparing apples to oranges; legacy carriers were bleeding then, and Delta is making so much money right now it's giving it back to shareholders. ALPA isn't either extreme, in my opinion. They aren't some evil arm of management trying to screw the line pilot, but they clearly have made many mistakes, from scope to pension losses, pay, etc. A reasonable discussion of the union needs have both sides shown, and not just detractors and cheerleaders.

Carl Spackler

Yes indeed. I remember that as well.

What they really meant to say is: "A contract's a contract. See ya in 2016."

Carl

Carl Spackler

You are correct sir, but you've forgotten a very important point. Management is paid primarily in stock and options. While what you state would indeed be in the long term best interests of our airline, it would not be in the best interest of maximum short term stock price. By "throwing billions into the shareholder value bonfire", they are actually transferring money for Delta's future...to their own pockets. That's our dilemma.

Carl

gloopy

I agree that's why they are doing it. I've always wondered about the nature of a BoD fudiciary. There has to be something to protect the long term investor, otherwise any company could canibalize itself for short term gain.

Look at Honda or Toyota, two brands known for long term quality. Either could destroy/monetize their own long term quality tomorrow, transfer a ton of money to their investors and it would be a year or two before word got out, their brand got tarnished by the customers and by then they could be long gone. Ditto for any company of course.

DALMD88FO

You must work the greenslip system like a pro. There is no way you are going to make $340k at 767 rate at straight pay.

badflaps

You missed your calling, shoulda been management, can't make the big bucks jacking a Boeing around the planet.