Details on Delta TA
10-17-2014, 05:09 PM
#2891
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
And that is why I despise 4833. C12 should have netted us more. Anyone who thinks this current trajectory in profits is going to continue is "High". Also, with the upcoming downturn (I dont know when), we will be sought after to take pay-cuts and contract relief. We are about one contract too late, in my opinion.
Who could've guessed that.
Carl
10-17-2014, 05:10 PM
#2892
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
We've been in a leadership position in this industry for quite some time. Just a thought ... but how about WE raise the bar more than slightly better than BK+COLA?
I know it's a lot and it won't be easy. But if not us, then who? Do you really think if we wait for somebody else to do it, that it's ever going to happen? We've set the tone and provided the leadership for this profession for the past decade. And the tone we've set and the leadership we've provided says that we don't ever expect to restore the buying power of our compensation. It says we've accepted bankruptcy as a reset and only expect "reasonable" improvements to that new baseline.
You can't have it both ways, T. Either your goal is restoration... which means you have to put on your big boy pants and not be afraid to say it. Or you're goal is something far short of that. It seems clear which way you lean. You want to pay lip service to restoration every now and then, but then every argument you make is counter to it. Might as well just go ahead and wave that white flag (while wearing your life preserver in case somebody else rocks the boat).
... but how about WE raise the bar more than slightly better than BK+COLA?I know it's a lot and it won't be easy. But if not us, then who? Do you really think if we wait for somebody else to do it, that it's ever going to happen? We've set the tone and provided the leadership for this profession for the past decade. And the tone we've set and the leadership we've provided says that we don't ever expect to restore the buying power of our compensation. It says we've accepted bankruptcy as a reset and only expect "reasonable" improvements to that new baseline.
You can't have it both ways, T. Either your goal is restoration... which means you have to put on your big boy pants and not be afraid to say it. Or you're goal is something far short of that. It seems clear which way you lean. You want to pay lip service to restoration every now and then, but then every argument you make is counter to it. Might as well just go ahead and wave that white flag (while wearing your life preserver in case somebody else rocks the boat).
Fire away.
10-17-2014, 05:25 PM
#2893
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
EF&A either is inept or DALPA accepts what the company offers and calls it negotiation.
10-17-2014, 05:40 PM
#2894
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
I'm no Obama fan or cheerleader but our economy is doing much better today than it was the day he took office. You can't say the same thing for GWB. We were in very deep recession the day Bush left office. Some economists even say we were borderline depression. Go ahead spin away 
....Bush
2001...+1.0%
2002...+1.8%
2003...+2.8%
2004...+3.8%
2005...+3.3%
2006...+2.7%
2007...+1.8%
2008... -0.3%
...Obama
2009... -2.8%
2010...+2.5%
2011...+1.6%
2012...+2.3%
2013...+2.2%
_____________________
Carl
10-17-2014, 05:51 PM
#2895
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
I got no problem with restoration. I just am not interested in going down the APA path of folding arms and waiting for DAL to knuckle under and give it to us (which AMR never did btw). I'll take a bite here and there and eventually we'll get there. You wanna fight management, and I get that. I really don't.
Carl
10-18-2014, 03:49 AM
#2896
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,108
Jet fuel price $2.42. Down .80 since 2/13. That is $3 billion annually extra right to our bottom line.
On top of over $1 billion in bag fees and over $1 billion in ticket change fees. On top of a wildly profitable oligopoly.
There is no excuse for not making major (historic) gains in every section of our contract.
On top of over $1 billion in bag fees and over $1 billion in ticket change fees. On top of a wildly profitable oligopoly.
There is no excuse for not making major (historic) gains in every section of our contract.
Last edited by gzsg; 10-18-2014 at 04:31 AM.
10-18-2014, 06:49 AM
#2897
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
With the size "bites" we've been taking, we will not eventually "get there." Not in your or my lifetime. So, again... either your objective is restoration or it is not. Here again I see you paying lip service to it but it sure doesn't sound like you really mean it.
But for that dynamic to work properly, you have to have a situation where one side is not taking advantage of the other. It has to be a mutually respectful relationship. That's not what we have today. We have the appearances of that. But when you cut through all the window dressing, our airline is arguably more successful than it's ever been, our management is being compensated better than they ever have, the other employees have made significant progress towards restoring their pay, and WE (pilots) are being paid as if the company was still on the verge of bankruptcy.
Because DALPA has spent the past 10 years setting the tone and expectations that we are okay with that, it would be a real shock to our management if suddenly we started talking restoration. Management thought they slayed the pilot cost dragon once and for all. And for good reason (thanks to DALPA).
I hope I'm wrong, but I think they are going to fight tooth and nail against restoring our pay. You can't win a fight if you don't engage in the fight. If management really values a mutually respectful relationship as much as we do, then maybe it wouldn't have to be all that big of a fight. In any case, it's all an academic discussion because DALPA won't press to test. Better to pretend you have proactive engagement and pretend you're not being taken advantage of, I guess.
10-18-2014, 07:21 AM
#2898
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,599
Of course as I mentioned before all the pilots who were 100% sure we were going to be making billions are now very rich of all the Delta stock they bought. Wish I was that smart.
10-18-2014, 09:18 AM
#2899
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Posts: 852
Your observation is right on. There was a way for the Angry Birds to score big on their predictions of massive profits, and their charge of ALPA incompetence. But that would have required some personal investment instead of just talk.
10-18-2014, 10:02 AM
#2900
:-)
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,339
I'm no Obama fan or cheerleader but our economy is doing much better today than it was the day he took office. You can't say the same thing for GWB. We were in very deep recession the day Bush left office. Some economists even say we were borderline depression. Go ahead spin away
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