Details on Delta TA
#2761
I recently flew with an old MEC guy who worked on C2K - he asked me "ya know how we came up with the pay rates?...we went back to the mid 80s, added inflation and came up with a rate". So that is ALL it was
#2762
Shouldn't we all want as much as possible without killing the golden goose? Call it what you want, restoration, incremental gains, fat moolah. Just show me the money!
Fwiw, I have no idea how to get it. I just want it. Our union educated us on the "time value of money". With that in mind, we should all want the biggest raise, restoration, as quick as possible!!!!
Fwiw, I have no idea how to get it. I just want it. Our union educated us on the "time value of money". With that in mind, we should all want the biggest raise, restoration, as quick as possible!!!!
Denny
#2763
757 rates in 1984 were on the order of $130ish/hr. Plug that into the CPI, and you get $280ish in 2014.
Nu
#2764
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Position: retired 767(dl)
Posts: 5,740
#2765
01OCT, 1986 - 767 Captain rate: $158.21
Adjusted for inflation, that's $342.55 today in 2014. (source: Tom's Inflation Calculator)
01MAY, 2004 (C2K) - 767 Captain rate: $267.52
Adjusted for inflation, that's $335.92 today in 2014. (source: Tom's Inflation Calculator)
FYI... today's 767 Captain rate: $219.62. That's a $122.93 per hour pay CUT in buying power from the 1986 rate and a $116.30 per hour pay CUT in buying power from the 2004 C2K rate.
#2766
Runs with scissors
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Posts: 7,730
If I "wrench the numbers a bit", I can prove the Sun orbits the Earth!
But it doesn't.
It doesn't matter if you call it "restoration", a "great leap", or "righteous justice" - it was a rate of increase in one contract greater than the increases achieved by other airlines that didn't see subsequent concessions during LivingTheDream's "dark years".
Timbo and LivingTheDream jump aboard with ""Small incremental changes/improvements will not even begin to restore our contract's buying power... not ever". Maybe they could start a thread calling out Southwest, FedEx, and UPS pilots for destroying our profession with their underachieving contract history. Just be prepared to respond to how they could possibly have found themselves earning more than us using their incremental gains strategy.
The term "restoration" should be banned from any contract discussions. We should position ourselves so we aren't vulnerable to the abrupt losses that result in the need for restoration in the future. It's been done by others. That was the history I was providing.
But it doesn't.
It doesn't matter if you call it "restoration", a "great leap", or "righteous justice" - it was a rate of increase in one contract greater than the increases achieved by other airlines that didn't see subsequent concessions during LivingTheDream's "dark years".
Timbo and LivingTheDream jump aboard with ""Small incremental changes/improvements will not even begin to restore our contract's buying power... not ever". Maybe they could start a thread calling out Southwest, FedEx, and UPS pilots for destroying our profession with their underachieving contract history. Just be prepared to respond to how they could possibly have found themselves earning more than us using their incremental gains strategy.
The term "restoration" should be banned from any contract discussions. We should position ourselves so we aren't vulnerable to the abrupt losses that result in the need for restoration in the future. It's been done by others. That was the history I was providing.
Are you aware that they did indeed (mostly SW) drag the whole industry's pay rates down?
Are you aware that those three suffered very little loss in traffic due to 9-11? The freight companies lost no business, while SW, being a small domestic only carrier, lost very little traffic/earnings. Meanwhile, the MAJORS, flying empty international routes, lost BILLIONS! But not due to PILOT WAGES! We could have flown for free and they still would have lost money and gone bankrupt.
BTW, prior to the Major's pay cuts, SW was -always- at the bottom of the 737 pay scales and I flew for a UPS feeder in 1985 prior to coming to DAL, why do you think I left?
MONEY!
But now you are comparing one of the largest international airlines pay rates in the industry, to a domestic 737 ops and a couple freight outfits?
Seriously?
You disgust me.
Back in the day, the ONLY reason anyone went to SW or a career in night freight was, they'd already been turned down at Delta, American, NW and United.
But now you hold SW/UPS/FDX up as a shining example of how to negotiate? They didn't pass us, we dropped below them!
While Delta is making BILLIONS, you are ok with 3% raises??
You are one naïve puppy.
#2767
JP Morgan analyst on Delta
Good read:
________________________
A J.P. Morgan airline analyst cited Delta as an example of why airlines are an increasingly attractive investment for Wall Street, even among those who historically have been wary of the industry.
In an interview on CNBC’s “Squawk Box,” financial analyst Jamie Baker said that airlines like Delta should “be shoulder-to-shoulder on the same stage with other high-quality transports.”
“Take a company like Delta, for example,” he said. “Delta generates more cash than 85 percent of [the S&P 500]. That’s more cash generation than Nike, than Yum Brands, than Amazon, it’s more cash generation than Costco.”
He added that it is time for billionaire investor Warren Buffet to reconsider his longstanding aversion to airline stocks, noting that the industry has been reshaping its business model for long-term stability and success.
__________________________
With this in mind, let's recall how many areas our contract leads the industry:
________________________
A J.P. Morgan airline analyst cited Delta as an example of why airlines are an increasingly attractive investment for Wall Street, even among those who historically have been wary of the industry.
In an interview on CNBC’s “Squawk Box,” financial analyst Jamie Baker said that airlines like Delta should “be shoulder-to-shoulder on the same stage with other high-quality transports.”
“Take a company like Delta, for example,” he said. “Delta generates more cash than 85 percent of [the S&P 500]. That’s more cash generation than Nike, than Yum Brands, than Amazon, it’s more cash generation than Costco.”
He added that it is time for billionaire investor Warren Buffet to reconsider his longstanding aversion to airline stocks, noting that the industry has been reshaping its business model for long-term stability and success.
__________________________
With this in mind, let's recall how many areas our contract leads the industry:
As we're filling out our surveys, I thought it would be helpful to list where Delta pilots lead the industry. We all know our company leads the industry in financial performance and merger effectivity, but how often do we pilots lead? Here's the list from our contract comparison as to who leads in the specified areas:
1. Scope...............Southwest
2. Pay Rates:
-----B747/777.......Delta
-----B767-4/A330..United
-----B767-300.......UPS
-----B757.............UPS
-----B737-900.......Delta
-----A320.............United
-----MD88/717......Delta
-----Per Diem........American
3. Work Rules:
-----Monthly Guarantee...UPS
-----Reserve Guarantee...UPS
-----DPA/ADG................Southwest
4. Vacation:
-----Accrual..............United
-----Pay...................FedEx
5. Training Pay.........Alaska
6. Sick Leave............Hard to tell
7. Retirement Plans...FedEx
8. Medical................Southwest
9. Long Term Disab...UPS
Carl
1. Scope...............Southwest
2. Pay Rates:
-----B747/777.......Delta
-----B767-4/A330..United
-----B767-300.......UPS
-----B757.............UPS
-----B737-900.......Delta
-----A320.............United
-----MD88/717......Delta
-----Per Diem........American
3. Work Rules:
-----Monthly Guarantee...UPS
-----Reserve Guarantee...UPS
-----DPA/ADG................Southwest
4. Vacation:
-----Accrual..............United
-----Pay...................FedEx
5. Training Pay.........Alaska
6. Sick Leave............Hard to tell
7. Retirement Plans...FedEx
8. Medical................Southwest
9. Long Term Disab...UPS
Carl
#2768
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2007
Posts: 593
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