Herkflyr

Actually I think that they do dislike it, if not hate it. What they truly don't like is the fact that some guys are working "part time" (or even less), but getting full-time benefits. They also don't like the "unpredictability" factor, and will dislike it even more as the years go by and retirements rocket up.

And to correct an earlier post of yours, it is very easy in some categories to drop your entire line to zero via the swapboard, no matter how thin the reserve manning.

Some guys just bid high time turns, then drop whatever they wish. They could do that in perpetuity, no matter how understaffed we are.

That said, we don't need to waste one breath on a minimum required flying concession. I would vote no on any TA that contained such a provision.

DAL 88 Driver

What conjecture? Is this really so hard? We took massive cuts 10 years ago in an extreme crisis. Today (10 years later), our buying power is slightly worse than it was after the first draconian cut of 32.5% in a desperate attempt to prevent Delta's bankruptcy.

Our industry has been restructured in a way that should result in less dramatic up and down cycles going forward and more sustained profitability. Our company is making literally BILLIONS (with a B) in profits. And we have no stated objective to restore our buying power. And we've acted for 10 years like bankruptcy established a new normal and that we don't ever expect to restore our buying power.

None of the above is conjecture. It's pure fact. Do you really think it's smart to have no stated restorative objective in this situation and to continue acting like we have no expectation of the sort? If you do, then there's just not anything I can do to help you... conjecture or otherwise.

Oberon

What does company gain by forcing pilots to fly some minimum number? If a pilot drops his line via the trade board it's cost neutral, if he drops into open time the company saves the value of the dropped trips. It doesn't make sense that the company would care one way or the other.

As far as I can tell the only reason we are discussing it is because gzsg posted it. He may have made it up, which isn't totally crazy given he didn't bother to mention where his rumors originate.

Alan Shore

The conjecture of how best to maximize the value of our profession. You have an opinion based on your dissatisfaction of our reps' progress so far relative to C2K. Others have a different opinion based on our reps' progress so far relative to our peers.

DAL 88 Driver

So everything is relative to our "peers?" You make my point, Alan. Your objective is not to restore the value of our careers but rather to win some kind of pilot contract contest. You know... our careers may be worth 30% less, but by golly we're #1!

If we have no objective... or we have an insufficient or nebulous objective... there's just no way we're ever going to get remotely close to restoration. There's more to it than just pattern bargaining. Hanging our hat on waiting for some other pilot group to eclipse us by 1% is one of the reasons we are still at an effective 34% pay cut. We need bold leadership that's not afraid to call a spade a spade and that makes no apology for the value of what we do. Sadly, the leadership we have is nothing like that. We need to be leading the charge to restoring our profession, not setting an example that demonstrates we gave up on it.

And I noticed you conveniently didn't answer my question. Here it is again (in bold below). Want to take a stab at it?

Flamer

I'm sure there are some trips being dropped by PDs. They go to Reserves, or in bi-weekly IROPs they go out as GSs due to lack of Res. I'm sure some bean counter can show how this would save a few bucks and down the road in the next contract allow for Res contractual staffing to be cut to razor thin margins. The Co could be posturing for two or three contracts down the road. Chess gentlemen.

Then there is the human nature to feel as though the part time flying with full benefits costs money somehow, regardless of who picks up the hours and how.

I'm an auto no vote on this issue. No concessions.

Flamer

The Co is working on the fringes of a mature contract. Not a lot of efficiencies to squeeze out of a pilot group working to the FARs with horrible vacation and a nefarious sick leave policy. 5 bucks says we see this one in the opener.

LowPhlyer

That's a good one ; )

You think the pilots are going to see the opener?

I can show you the opener right now...even though it will not be available for anyone outside the MEC to view"

1. Improve section X.
2. Improve section Y.
3. Improve section Z.
4. Don't give up anything substantial.

That's your opener...this way the Negotiating Committee never fails when they bring back a T/A that doesn't come close to meeting the objectives that were layed out by the pilots who filled out the survey and called their reps. It will also meet the MECs direction because they will be cowed into accepting the "nebulous and goal-less" opener that the Negotiators tell them they MUST pass because anything with real goals will tie their hands.

Even when some on the MEC actually say out loud that they expect at least X%, the Negotiating Committee can miss that number greatly but they still met the "Opener".

Don't believe me...just go read some of the C2012 Council updates. They confirm exactly what I am saying. Even the "sky will fall and we will be put in NMB hell if we vote NO" admitted that the T/A didn't meet the expectations but they sold it to the 60% anyway.

The past will keep repeating as long as 60% keep acquiescing.

I wish I could be proven wrong but won't hold my breath.

LP

Flamer

Sorry, I meant to infer minimums will be in the Co's opener. If you are in the majority, and fly more than whatever a "minimum" would be, and you enjoy open time to adjust your schedule for QOL issues you will vote no for minimums. Open time will be reduced and so will trip give always. This issue affects the majority as much as it affects the minority.

Oberon

This seems to be the most likely scenario other than gzsg making the whole story up. Even if someone in management decided they want this at some point they would cost it out and figure out it's more or less worthless. Or they would overestimate it's value (unlikely) and try to trade it for something.

Would you trade unlimited drops for a 6 hour min day? That's a pretty unlikely scenario but illustrates how you can generate value from a "concession".