Details on Delta TA
#2481
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Posts: 710
I think folks well below that seniority level would agree with that. Fill up 401k, AND 401c to fed limits in combination with ""reasonable"* pay rate increases is a goal I could get behind, before higher pay rates with no change in retirement contribution.
* reasonable is up for debate. Fights on.
* reasonable is up for debate. Fights on.
#2482
That works for you and sailingfun.. but not for me.. or 88driver actually. And it doesn't provide any kind of average. Sorry, but it won't, because there are 11,000 different situations. So I will say this again. If you simply want to talk about restoration of payrates, that's one thing, and ya'll can argue that all day long. But that is only a small part of the equation. And I'm not saying that the figure isn't "eye opening" Never said any such thing. What I AM saying however is that it is not as simple as some here like to make it out to be.
Now for some reason you demand some scientific analysis...demand it from your effing union, you know the leverageless, no strategic goal, collective bargaining agent.
#2483
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2014
Posts: 429
I don't understand this 15% + 20% statement at all. What are you trying to say? Re: the we all gave a million argument. I agree and it seems like a fair average. We gave up a lot. Furloughed folks lost 100% for a while. Shareholders lost 100%. I'm not sure we had many alternatives. What I don't understand is how that is an argument or leverage. 1) management already knows what we gave up and 2) they don't care. Neither does the BoD, the NMB, any Judge, Mediator or Arbitrator or PEB member. We care, but they don't. Telling them what they already know and don't care about is like talking to my cat. We will probably have to throw a shoe at some point. IMO. OFG
#2484
Moderator
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 6,991
That works for you and sailingfun.. but not for me.. or 88driver actually. And it doesn't provide any kind of average. Sorry, but it won't, because there are 11,000 different situations. So I will say this again. If you simply want to talk about restoration of payrates, that's one thing, and ya'll can argue that all day long. But that is only a small part of the equation. And I'm not saying that the figure isn't "eye opening" Never said any such thing. What I AM saying however is that it is not as simple as some here like to make it out to be.
I think 100K a year as an average might be a little bit high, but not by much. My guess would be between 75 and 100K.
However there is really no reason to guess as this information is readily available and I sure hope the NC guys have it. Divide total Pilot costs in 2004/total Pilots. That will give you an average for that year. Do the same for the following years and bingo you can get your answer.
Scoop
#2485
IMO, at no point did Timbo or 88drvr ever try to put a super fine point on the lost million, they averaged it. Now you are trying to put a super fine point on it just to be argumentative. If it was a million more or less for a middle of the pack guy, it was a million for everyone...mean, median, mode who cares...noone but you argues against it.
Now for some reason you demand some scientific analysis...demand it from your effing union, you know the leverageless, no strategic goal, collective bargaining agent.
Now for some reason you demand some scientific analysis...demand it from your effing union, you know the leverageless, no strategic goal, collective bargaining agent.
#2486
However there is really no reason to guess as this information is readily available and I sure hope the NC guys have it. Divide total Pilot costs in 2004/total Pilots. That will give you an average for that year. Do the same for the following years and bingo you can get your answer.
Scoop
Scoop
#2487
#2488
Straight QOL, homie
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator
Posts: 4,202
From Oberon's post above;
"Here's our main difference of opinion. You think your (or my) estimation of our value has some relevance in our negotiations and I think it's mostly irrelevant (there is a place for rhetoric if/when the company isn't cooperating to rally the groups leading up to a strike vote). We will get what we can negotiate which is determined by the leverage we have or can generate. Historical pay rates aren't leverage."
And he wasn't even working for Delta until a few months ago...
Sounds like Oberon has accepted the bankruptcy pay rates as a reset.
"Here's our main difference of opinion. You think your (or my) estimation of our value has some relevance in our negotiations and I think it's mostly irrelevant (there is a place for rhetoric if/when the company isn't cooperating to rally the groups leading up to a strike vote). We will get what we can negotiate which is determined by the leverage we have or can generate. Historical pay rates aren't leverage."
And he wasn't even working for Delta until a few months ago...
Sounds like Oberon has accepted the bankruptcy pay rates as a reset.
#2489
That's all he's known since he's been in the industry. And he thinks history is irrelevant. I don't even know where to start with that.
#2490
Straight QOL, homie
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator
Posts: 4,202
I discussed the contract situation with the guy I was flying with the other day. His response: "I don't worry about it. We'll get what we get."
It's simply amazing that after guys have worked this hard to get here, they're dysfunctionally complacent when it comes to being properly compensated.
Sure, it's feels good for them to say that "money isn't everything," or "well get what we get" (the epitome of passivity). Maybe it's a way for them to rationalize their unwillingness to fight for every cent of pay, and any every second off.
Meanwhile, back in the real world, like it or not, money and QOL are pretty damn important. RA, Sleepy Ed, and the boys agree--and they're happy to enjoy theirs at our expense.
Last edited by Purple Drank; 10-02-2014 at 12:36 PM.
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