Details on Delta TA
10-01-2014, 06:24 AM
#2441
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
So tell me again what this "proactive engagement" stuff is all about.
10-01-2014, 06:34 AM
#2442
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
From Oberon's post above;
"Here's our main difference of opinion. You think your (or my) estimation of our value has some relevance in our negotiations and I think it's mostly irrelevant (there is a place for rhetoric if/when the company isn't cooperating to rally the groups leading up to a strike vote). We will get what we can negotiate which is determined by the leverage we have or can generate. Historical pay rates aren't leverage."
And he wasn't even working for Delta until a few months ago...
Sounds like Oberon has accepted the bankruptcy pay rates as a reset.
I have not. I have 29 years invested here. I lost a whole lot of money in the bankruptcy and now I want it back! The company cannot say they cannot afford to repay us for our sacrifices.
Certainly not when they are making $4 Billion per year!
($2 Billion of which was our contribution)
"Here's our main difference of opinion. You think your (or my) estimation of our value has some relevance in our negotiations and I think it's mostly irrelevant (there is a place for rhetoric if/when the company isn't cooperating to rally the groups leading up to a strike vote). We will get what we can negotiate which is determined by the leverage we have or can generate. Historical pay rates aren't leverage."
And he wasn't even working for Delta until a few months ago...
Sounds like Oberon has accepted the bankruptcy pay rates as a reset.
I have not. I have 29 years invested here. I lost a whole lot of money in the bankruptcy and now I want it back! The company cannot say they cannot afford to repay us for our sacrifices.
Certainly not when they are making $4 Billion per year!
($2 Billion of which was our contribution)
I figure the average Delta pilot who's been here during the past 10 years has contributed at least an average of $100K per year to Delta's recovery. That's $1 million per pilot! At your seniority, you've probably contributed substantially more than that.
Just to clarify, are you suggesting you be repaid for all of that, plus go forward at a comparable level of compensation? Or are you suggesting that we just go forward at a comparable level of compensation? (i.e. "restoration")
The reason I ask is because it's a really big difference. Even I don't think it's plausible that we be repaid for everything we've contributed to date. I'm willing to write off the $1 million I figure I've already contributed to help my company through its financial crisis. What I'm not willing to write off is the value of the remainder of my career. I don't think there's any need to do that. And I think that is an extremely reasonable and generous position. Unfortunately, the prevailing thinking within DALPA seems to be that it's not even reasonable or plausible to restore our compensation going forward.
You are way senior to me... so our perspectives may be somewhat different. I'd be interested in your thoughts on this.
10-01-2014, 06:38 AM
#2443
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
10-01-2014, 06:55 AM
#2444
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
Let's take the MD-88/90 Captain position as an example.
2004 C2K rate was $240. After the 42% pay cut, that rate was $139. If a guy flew 80 hours per month, that's almost $97K for the year just in pay cuts. Now add in the lost value of the pension and a full decade of stagnation due to outsourcing, and I think you've easily got over $100K.
Up until two years ago, our bankruptcy level pay rates had only kept up with inflation. So up until two years ago, we were still looking at a 42% pay cut and that MD-88/90 Captain was still looking at a similar deficit in pay cuts. Again, add in the lost value of the pension and all those years of stagnation and I think you've easily got over $100K per year. The past two years (under C2012) reduced the pay cut from 42% to 34%. So very little progress there.
I don't have any hard data to conclusively prove the claim I'm making of the $1 million contribution per pilot (to date). But I think my assumptions are pretty sound. It's a wag on my part. But I'll bet it's not far off.
2004 C2K rate was $240. After the 42% pay cut, that rate was $139. If a guy flew 80 hours per month, that's almost $97K for the year just in pay cuts. Now add in the lost value of the pension and a full decade of stagnation due to outsourcing, and I think you've easily got over $100K.
Up until two years ago, our bankruptcy level pay rates had only kept up with inflation. So up until two years ago, we were still looking at a 42% pay cut and that MD-88/90 Captain was still looking at a similar deficit in pay cuts. Again, add in the lost value of the pension and all those years of stagnation and I think you've easily got over $100K per year. The past two years (under C2012) reduced the pay cut from 42% to 34%. So very little progress there.
I don't have any hard data to conclusively prove the claim I'm making of the $1 million contribution per pilot (to date). But I think my assumptions are pretty sound. It's a wag on my part. But I'll bet it's not far off.
10-01-2014, 07:16 AM
#2445
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: 5-9 block, kill removing
Posts: 385
Let's take the MD-88/90 Captain position as an example.
2004 C2K rate was $240. After the 42% pay cut, that rate was $139. If a guy flew 80 hours per month, that's almost $97K for the year just in pay cuts. Now add in the lost value of the pension and a full decade of stagnation due to outsourcing, and I think you've easily got over $100K.
Up until two years ago, our bankruptcy level pay rates had only kept up with inflation. So up until two years ago, we were still looking at a 42% pay cut and that MD-88/90 Captain was still looking at a similar deficit in pay cuts. Again, add in the lost value of the pension and all those years of stagnation and I think you've easily got over $100K per year. The past two years (under C2012) reduced the pay cut from 42% to 34%. So very little progress there.
I don't have any hard data to conclusively prove the claim I'm making of the $1 million contribution per pilot (to date). But I think my assumptions are pretty sound. It's a wag on my part. But I'll bet it's not far off.
2004 C2K rate was $240. After the 42% pay cut, that rate was $139. If a guy flew 80 hours per month, that's almost $97K for the year just in pay cuts. Now add in the lost value of the pension and a full decade of stagnation due to outsourcing, and I think you've easily got over $100K.
Up until two years ago, our bankruptcy level pay rates had only kept up with inflation. So up until two years ago, we were still looking at a 42% pay cut and that MD-88/90 Captain was still looking at a similar deficit in pay cuts. Again, add in the lost value of the pension and all those years of stagnation and I think you've easily got over $100K per year. The past two years (under C2012) reduced the pay cut from 42% to 34%. So very little progress there.
I don't have any hard data to conclusively prove the claim I'm making of the $1 million contribution per pilot (to date). But I think my assumptions are pretty sound. It's a wag on my part. But I'll bet it's not far off.
10-01-2014, 07:45 AM
#2446
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
10-01-2014, 08:07 AM
#2447
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Position: Unknown
Posts: 38
DAL88Driver, some numbers you haven't taken into consideration are the profit sharing and the DC money. We also got some lump sum and pbgc money to add into the equation. Don't get me wrong, I want to see more money coming our way. I just don't think your numbers tell the whole story.
10-01-2014, 08:11 AM
#2448
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 799
DAL88Driver, some numbers you haven't taken into consideration are the profit sharing and the DC money. We also got some lump sum and pbgc money to add into the equation. Don't get me wrong, I want to see more money coming our way. I just don't think your numbers tell the whole story.
10-01-2014, 08:18 AM
#2450
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
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