scambo1

Yawn........

80ktsClamp

4% is about 1 flight a day.

Oberon

Started flying in January 2000, got my first CFI job in August 2000, first (of four) airline job in August 2004, furloughed for three months in 2006.

gloopy

That was the two big parts of that infamous memo.

The key takeaways were:

We weren't under any 2 hour long call callback provision. Ever. Never ever. That was 100% pure fantasy and by his own admission it was rare for them to even need it and they set an unofficial policy of 16 hours themselves. He made that part up and it never, ever, would have held up in a grieveance. Slam dunk, called foul and a free throw. Easiest grievance win in history.

The other part was nothing before noon on day one. With our current language, that was the absolute soonest we could have had anything. That memo didn't gift us anything. Their hands were tied and they didn't want to set themselves up for another slam dunk grievance loss.

You're making it sound like he gifted us something along with the fantasy take away. That was not the case. The only part of the imminent grievance we stood a chance of losing was the endless "logic loop" of no reserve being available for anything ever. That would have been tossed, or "interpreted" away, and we would have been left with a 16-19 hour long call and nothing before noon on day one.

That was not just reserve QOL BTW, that was staffing across the board that we gave up settling for the old 12 hour long call and giving back 2 hours on day one, down to FAR mins, and still trying to call it a victory. We paid a lot for the ADG increase, in QOL and in jobs. Hopefully we get most of it back in its implimentation and side effects, but I'm not yet convinced.

DAL 88 Driver

Okay, thanks for answering that question.

So you started in the airline industry during arguably the darkest time in its history. What were your expectations getting into this career? i.e. Is your frame of reference for the value of this profession the "bankruptcy era" or does your frame of reference include the long established track record of the value of this profession prior to that? What makes you think that a drastically reduced value established during a crisis should be accepted as a new basline?

Denny Crane

That's better than 1 flight less a day!


Today my glass is half full!!!

Denny

nwaf16dude

Network planning says your glass is too big

Oberon

Here's our main difference of opinion. You think your (or my) estimation of our value has some relevance in our negotiations and I think it's mostly irrelevant (there is a place for rhetoric if/when the company isn't cooperating to rally the groups leading up to a strike vote). We will get what we can negotiate which is determined by the leverage we have or can generate. Historical pay rates aren't leverage.

That's not to say we can't get the pay rates you want. If we do it won't be because Delta pilots used to make equivalent rates, it will be because we have the leverage to get there. We have a lot of leverage right now. Delta is making more money than they ever have so it should be able to pay its pilots more than it ever has. All the major airlines have similar contracts. There is no US Airways dragging us down. Unfortunately there is no one pulling us up; Southwest helps, maybe UPS and FedEx could help. The company values labor peace enough to mention it to investors. I'm guessing they value it enough to pay a little more to keep it.

Does this add up to the pay rates you want? I hope so. I couldn't say with any certainty though.

I'm going to try to address your questions a little more directly but there was a pretty clear slant to them. Sort of like when Stephen Colbert used to ask guests "George Bush; great President or greatest President?". Anyway...

This question is straight forward enough. I wasn't the most well informed student. I didn't go to college planning on being a pilot, I chose it because flying seemed better than going to an office and I knew I liked airplanes and flying because my dad had a small plane when I was a kid. When researching the profession I was told pilots got a lot of time off, made a lot of money, and the "Vietnam era" pilots would be retiring in masse so there was demand. Needless to say, I've learned a lot since then. Overall, I'd say very little of what I thought when I was 20 years old has relevence to my life today, career expectations included. Decide for yourself.

I honestly don't spend much time concentrating on the value of the profession. If I didn't fly I'd probably be in the house flipping/rental property business. I'm guessing I could make more money and have more time off later in my life if I quit flying tomorrow and concentrated on that but the trade off would be way longer hours in the near and mid term. I've determined my personal value of the profession is greater than the alternative. Apparently, you have too since you continue to work for Delta.

My determination for how much our pay rates should be (I realize there is more to the contract than pay rates but that is the one thing that can be easily compared over time) is based on what our leverage is. I think we have a lot of leverage and expect a significant pay raise. Is it enough to get to historical levels? I don't know. How does our leverage compare to historical levels?

This is your Stephen Colbert question. I've never said and bankruptcy should be accepted as a new baseline. I've said our contract would be decided by the leverage we have and that "restoration" gives us no leverage. I can't answer a question based on a false premise. What happened in bankruptcy is irrelevant to C2015 just like what happened in C2001 is irrelevant.

80ktsClamp

Yeah, it's actually somewhere between 1 and 2.

Alan Shore

What Oberon said.