EdGrimley

Bingo! Should have been at the top of the list a long time ago. SF, wants to extol the virtue of his friend Lee Moak above. LM has been the worst and most damaging president to ever preside over ALPA. His belief that RJ's should not be flow at mainline has contributed to giving half of all mainline flying away.

Back to your point. ALPA national should be using every ounce of political capitol to break apart the outdated RLA. But not a peep on that or restoration. They do some good things (NAI) when it aligns with management goals asking them to lobby together with A4A.

80ktsClamp

So... again, none of what Lee had to say as president to anyone had any effect on any of the stuff you outlined in your diatribe?

Alan Shore

By and large, sick leave at Delta is what it's been for many, many years, in terms of each pilot getting X amount of hours to use in each sick year. There are two main differences:

1. In BK, they started taking us down to 75% pay for sick usage after we had used 225 in any rolling 3-year period. That was restored in C2012.
2. In C2012, sick leave verification (which had always been in the contract, but under nebulous terms) was specified as to when a pilot must and need not verify his illness.

DALMD88FO

I will add on one more about the survey and sick leave. There were questions about what if we had a sick bank that was paid out each year if it's not used or something to that effect. I wrote that this would be a huge mistake. Just like the flight attendants with their PPT, which can be used as sick time, it will never be used. You will have guys/gals on their deathbeds crawling into the cockpit so that they get the max payout amount. I had a system like this at a 121 supplemental airline while on furlough. You would get a quaterly bonus if you didn't call in sick and an annual additional bonus if you made it a year. I know that a lot of you will say "We know if we are too sick to fly", however I've seen to the contrary. Even under the current system at Delta.

Alan Shore

I tend to agree with this line of thinking, but I wonder how my former North colleagues feel about the system they had prior to the merger. Did that system provide any "encouragement" to preserve sick hours for some catastrophic event later in life, and thus incentivize some pilots to fly sick?

Timbo

Why isn't DALPA putting out an accounting of the investment the Delta Pilots have made since 2004?

Where did that money go?

When Delta earns a Billion per quarter, how much of that was paid for by our pay cuts?

Why are they not making a business case to have our pay/benefits restored, now that the crisis is over?

Do you believe that Bankruptcy was a permanent reset to our pay/benefits?

Carl Spackler

When the union's president explains what will happen with contracts going forward, and that union leader decides on the funds that will be re-distributed to Delta pilots in pursuit of negotiated goals, the quotes from Moak are very relevant. But you knew that.

100% guaranteed. Especially since Moak has said nothing to refute the quotes. It makes those quotes accurate. By your silence on the content of those quotes, you agree with them too. But we all knew that about you Alfa.

No, negotiations are about leverage, pressure and PR when the end game nears. Money and data are simply the currency traded during the game while it's being played.

See above. Moak's quotes were very damaging to us, but very helpful to an MEC looking for a way to underachieve.

The "stupid" magazine didn't say anything Alfa. Moak did. The magazine simply conveyed the message.

Our goals are only part of the complex equation that is negotiations. The article gave other players ammunition against us. That changes the equation. That's why Moak did it. He wanted to ensure influence and damage to pilots' negotiating position after he leaves office. It sets the table well for him in his new role at A4A or some other anti-labor organization.

Serious problems aren't solved by your name calling Alfa. It only shows you have no argument whatsoever and are relegated to bashing people. You are consistent however. You are also tremendously educational as well regarding someone fostering the Ford and Harrison anti-labor tactics. Some pilots have a hard time believing one of our own could act this way. Everyone needs continuous reminders. Thanks for that.

Carl

gzsg

Timbo

Never happen. I've asked DALPA countless times to publish this number. They never will.

If we are to truly attain a history C2015, it is critical to educate our fellow employees and the shareholder that we have given over $15 billion and counting in concessions.

Jerry

index

Not with ALPA doing the negotiating.

A little arrogant in my opinion to opine about negotiations when you haven't even been on the property a full year.

Are you aware that in C2012 the company opened for a zero percent raise?

Carl Spackler

Great example of what is required when you read an alfaromeo post. Notice how he answered a question that wasn't asked? Clamp asked whether damaging comments by Moak would have an effect on us. But alfaromeo replied by saying Moak's words couldn't make you want less.

You have to read his posts very carefully and with an eye towards someone purposely trying to deceive. When you read his stuff in that context, his game is really easy to spot.

Carl