Details on Delta TA
09-24-2014, 04:56 AM
#2171
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,299
The question in my mind, and what I would have loved to have seen LM clarify, is what he means by "radical overhauls." Is he talking about major increases in pay and/or benefits, or is he talking about major changes to the basic structure of work rules, etc.?
I sure hope it's the latter. I could live with keeping the basic structure of our contract so long as the individual numbers are ratcheted up -- a lot.
09-24-2014, 05:10 AM
#2172
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: 320A
Posts: 333
One more time, for emphasis:
"Most of the contract talks are likely to center on basic compensation—hourly pay rates and how much carriers pay into pilots’ retirement plans. “There will be a business discussion of pay as it relates to revenue,” Moak says. “You can argue about $2 or $2.05, and that matters to the crew member,” but “you’re working on the margins” on the new contracts, he says."
Alan, was that clear enough for you?
So if that whole thing was a 'misquote', where's the retraction?
I agree with his latest letter, about the real pilot shortage being a Pay shortage, but he stopped short at the RJ level. He could have also included US, and the massive losses in pilot pay/benefits/retirements at the MAJOR airlines as well! Why would anyone want to suffer years on an RJ only to come to a Major...and work for 1998 pay rates...in 2014?
"Most of the contract talks are likely to center on basic compensation—hourly pay rates and how much carriers pay into pilots’ retirement plans. “There will be a business discussion of pay as it relates to revenue,” Moak says. “You can argue about $2 or $2.05, and that matters to the crew member,” but “you’re working on the margins” on the new contracts, he says."
Alan, was that clear enough for you?
So if that whole thing was a 'misquote', where's the retraction?
I agree with his latest letter, about the real pilot shortage being a Pay shortage, but he stopped short at the RJ level. He could have also included US, and the massive losses in pilot pay/benefits/retirements at the MAJOR airlines as well! Why would anyone want to suffer years on an RJ only to come to a Major...and work for 1998 pay rates...in 2014?
09-24-2014, 05:11 AM
#2173
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 757/767
Posts: 588
I must have missed his post where he expressed wanting restoration. That's my fault. If he did that, I agree that would be inappropriate for someone who was at Comair at the the time. Sorry Timbo.
The "none of your business" snarkyness on a public anonymous message board though. Really?
The "none of your business" snarkyness on a public anonymous message board though. Really?
09-24-2014, 05:22 AM
#2174
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
Moak meant what he said. It's completely in character with everything else he's said and done over the past 10 years.
09-24-2014, 05:30 AM
#2175
Runs with scissors
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Posts: 7,730
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09-24-2014, 05:40 AM
#2176
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
I also didn't see anything in writing that said he would correct his quote.
09-24-2014, 06:25 AM
#2177
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 757/767
Posts: 588
Would someone please breakdown Moak's quotes in the Blomberg article and explain why we should be upset about them? I've seen a lot of people post the article and express outrage but the quotes in the article range from innocuous to unintelligible due to poor context by the author. I'm particularly interested in the "$2.00 or $2.05" quote. If you have a clue what that means I'm listening.
09-24-2014, 06:57 AM
#2178
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,503
Would someone please breakdown Moak's quotes in the Blomberg article and explain why we should be upset about them? I've seen a lot of people post the article and express outrage but the quotes in the article range from innocuous to unintelligible due to poor context by the author. I'm particularly interested in the "$2.00 or $2.05" quote. If you have a clue what that means I'm listening.
Re read the article, for comprehension this time, and describe to us how you come to the conclusion that the remarks are innocuous.
Same with "unintelligible due to poor context of the author."
09-24-2014, 06:57 AM
#2179
Runs with scissors
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Posts: 7,730
But why won't our MEC even publish that, as a GOAL??
If you have NO GOAL, how do you ever expect to achieve it?
The strategy is simple, as I laid out a few pages back.
All they have to do is pull out the same play book we used in 2000-2001 to achieve our C2K rates.
They first show the math, the actual dollars the Delta/NW Pilots have "Invested" in returning Delta to the top of the industry since bankruptcy.
Add to that our lost retirement dollars.
You simply put Delta Pilot pay rates, (lost pay) from 2004, up through 2014, on a graph, right next to Delta's Record Earnings and plot Management's pay over the same 10 year period.
I would have liked to have seen that graph in the Contract History book they just put out.
Where is OUR return on investment?
We are still at 1998 pay rates.
That's what I got out of that contract history.
Last edited by Timbo; 09-24-2014 at 07:23 AM.
09-24-2014, 07:15 AM
#2180
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: "Prof" button manipulator
Posts: 1,685
Restoration isn't a strategy, it's a GOAL!
But why won't our MEC even publish that, as a GOAL??
If you have NO GOAL, how do you ever expect to achieve it?
The strategy is simple, as I laid out a few pages back.
All they have to do is pull out the same play book we used in 2000-2001.
They first show the math, the actual dollars the Delta/NW Pilots have "Invested" in returning Delta to the top of the industry since bankruptcy.
Add to that our lost retirement dollars.
You simply put Delta Pilot pay rates, (lost pay) from 2004, up through 2014, on a graph, right next to Delta's Record Earnings and plot Management's pay over the same 10 year period.
I would have liked to have seen that graph in the Contract History book they just put out.
Where is OUR return on investment?
We are still at 1998 pay rates.
That's what I got out of that contract history.
But why won't our MEC even publish that, as a GOAL??
If you have NO GOAL, how do you ever expect to achieve it?
The strategy is simple, as I laid out a few pages back.
All they have to do is pull out the same play book we used in 2000-2001.
They first show the math, the actual dollars the Delta/NW Pilots have "Invested" in returning Delta to the top of the industry since bankruptcy.
Add to that our lost retirement dollars.
You simply put Delta Pilot pay rates, (lost pay) from 2004, up through 2014, on a graph, right next to Delta's Record Earnings and plot Management's pay over the same 10 year period.
I would have liked to have seen that graph in the Contract History book they just put out.
Where is OUR return on investment?
We are still at 1998 pay rates.
That's what I got out of that contract history.
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