Details on Delta TA
09-04-2014, 01:21 PM
#1491
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
You ask the last page of questions first, and ask people where they want to put emphasis. Start with what people think they need, and ask where they want to put what we can get.
Then give a simple yes/no to all the concessionary items being presented. You do NOT give people several options to say yes to a concession, and only one way to say "no", and one way to be unsure. If a majority says no to CDO's, for example, you stop there, and you don't consider the follow-up question on how exactly they should be implemented.
You do NOT ask people to rank in order of priority something they already said they don't want to do. That is the height of hypocrisy. Several times, I was ask to give a priority number to one or several items I absolutely don't want to see implemented. If I didn't want to do D and E, I still was asked to rank them next A, B, and C, which I did favor. So the survey puts my priorities down as A, B, C, D, then E! How nice...
So you can shorten the survey be eliminating these false choices.
The survey doesn't need to be longer to be accurate, it just needs to be better written to gauge sentiment in a neural manner.
Then give a simple yes/no to all the concessionary items being presented. You do NOT give people several options to say yes to a concession, and only one way to say "no", and one way to be unsure. If a majority says no to CDO's, for example, you stop there, and you don't consider the follow-up question on how exactly they should be implemented.
You do NOT ask people to rank in order of priority something they already said they don't want to do. That is the height of hypocrisy. Several times, I was ask to give a priority number to one or several items I absolutely don't want to see implemented. If I didn't want to do D and E, I still was asked to rank them next A, B, and C, which I did favor. So the survey puts my priorities down as A, B, C, D, then E! How nice...
So you can shorten the survey be eliminating these false choices.
The survey doesn't need to be longer to be accurate, it just needs to be better written to gauge sentiment in a neural manner.
What the hell planet is this?
Carl
09-04-2014, 01:31 PM
#1492
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Cracked the code Herr Spackler. 
When I got this account years ago, it was in a fit of disbelief of how many were here buying the carefully orchestrated talking points designed to effectively manage our expectations.
Thus, I chose the screen name TheManager as I contemplated how I would not sit back and allow a blatantly emotionalized propaganda campaign to run unchecked by "reManaging" those expectations.
Again, ALPA is the only choice. DPA died when TC couldn't let go at the critical mass and step back to allow proper adult supervision.
Regardless, concerning ALPA: Time to change the message and influence the structure. Resist the bull turd managing of expectations and use the voting process to R&R reps and most importantly change the policy manual to truly make bottom up changes.
Web boards, email, text, twitter, and FB are powerful organizing and communications tools. Remember a little something called Arab Spring? Just look how quickly they choked on the CDOs they tried to slip past the pilots.
And I do mean slip past. The fine gentleman who was working as one of the architects within the group that was putting them together, FOR MONTHS! told us that they were sworn to secrecy and not allowed to discuss what they where doing for LOA 117 regarding CDOs.
He was aghast when we explained why we were against them as this had been his baby we deemed ugly. Got him to admit that they had a giant optics problem with them and a down right shameful lack of communications, that had they been forthright with, might have seen them adopted.
I think he went a little to far right after that when he alluded that CDO 2.0 is currently being developed.
Wasn't really shocked. Are any of you? Just ask yourself who benefits the most from them
. Just swallow. They are good for you!
When I got this account years ago, it was in a fit of disbelief of how many were here buying the carefully orchestrated talking points designed to effectively manage our expectations.
Thus, I chose the screen name TheManager as I contemplated how I would not sit back and allow a blatantly emotionalized propaganda campaign to run unchecked by "reManaging" those expectations.
Again, ALPA is the only choice. DPA died when TC couldn't let go at the critical mass and step back to allow proper adult supervision.
Regardless, concerning ALPA: Time to change the message and influence the structure. Resist the bull turd managing of expectations and use the voting process to R&R reps and most importantly change the policy manual to truly make bottom up changes.
Web boards, email, text, twitter, and FB are powerful organizing and communications tools. Remember a little something called Arab Spring? Just look how quickly they choked on the CDOs they tried to slip past the pilots.
And I do mean slip past. The fine gentleman who was working as one of the architects within the group that was putting them together, FOR MONTHS! told us that they were sworn to secrecy and not allowed to discuss what they where doing for LOA 117 regarding CDOs.
He was aghast when we explained why we were against them as this had been his baby we deemed ugly. Got him to admit that they had a giant optics problem with them and a down right shameful lack of communications, that had they been forthright with, might have seen them adopted.
I think he went a little to far right after that when he alluded that CDO 2.0 is currently being developed.
Wasn't really shocked. Are any of you? Just ask yourself who benefits the most from them
. Just swallow. They are good for you!Also agree on Tim's mistake with DPA. It allowed DALPA's Special Committee to personalize it as a fight against Tim the nutcase liar.
The real genius of Google was when Larry and Sergey realized they were not yet ready to be CEO's, and hiring Eric Schmidt to lead the company they founded. Understanding our own limitations and resisting the temptations whispered in our ear by our own egos is the key to success. Most can't do it.
Carl
09-04-2014, 01:44 PM
#1494
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,299
1) How do you think they're going to tabulate the free text results to get a picture of what the average pilot wants?
2) How do you weigh the opinion of a pilot that doesn't use the free text box, vs. one that doesn't?
Bonus: What's the reason they couldn't ask a second question about overall compensation increases throughout the duration of the contract, when they asked three questions about the initial increase at different intervals?
2) How do you weigh the opinion of a pilot that doesn't use the free text box, vs. one that doesn't?
Bonus: What's the reason they couldn't ask a second question about overall compensation increases throughout the duration of the contract, when they asked three questions about the initial increase at different intervals?
09-04-2014, 01:50 PM
#1495
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,299
I was ask to give a priority number to one or several items I absolutely don't want to see implemented. If I didn't want to do D and E, I still was asked to rank them next A, B, and C, which I did favor. So the survey puts my priorities down as A, B, C, D, then E! How nice...
You think that's wrong?
09-04-2014, 01:51 PM
#1496
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Position: Decoupled
Posts: 922
Originally Posted by orvil 
If that happened, DALPA would hold back the stock, hire someone to try to sell the stock as a block, wait for the price to go to a historic low before releasing the stock.... Nah, that would never happen.
Let's just stay away from stock. Put it in my paycheck every month, month in, month out. Let Dick and Eddie play that game.
(I thought the B/S was a pretty good descriptor, too)
T-square,
You completely missed the point of my post. I was pointing out that DALPA, in their great wisdom completely screwed up the distribution of the second stock grant. They withheld the stock grant from our membership because they got cute and thought they knew best what to do with the stock grants. Consequently, it was distributed to us at a historic low after it cratered from $12.00 to $4.00 per share. I never intended to imply any sort of manipulation.
I am merely pointing out that screw ups of all kinds are possible when you are talking about stocks or stock options. Much of our membership does not have the knowledge necessary to manage or trade a stock option, regardless how the distribution is structured.
Give me everything in a hourly wage. Steady hourly wage is all the incentive I need.
P.S. I've got tickets to Georgia-Tennessee. I'm in the club section. I'll be the guy wearing red and black.
If that happened, DALPA would hold back the stock, hire someone to try to sell the stock as a block, wait for the price to go to a historic low before releasing the stock.... Nah, that would never happen.
Let's just stay away from stock. Put it in my paycheck every month, month in, month out. Let Dick and Eddie play that game.
(I thought the B/S was a pretty good descriptor, too
)We have 850 million shares outstanding. I am not worried about that kind of manipulation at all.... And I certainly think your overly dramatic characterization of how dALPA (which at that point should not handle any of the transactions) would act is silly. For the most part I agree with you about stock vs paycheck pay, but it is not an automatic no from me. I find options much more intriguing, but again it would depend on the structure. If there is any waiting period, deal's dead.
You completely missed the point of my post. I was pointing out that DALPA, in their great wisdom completely screwed up the distribution of the second stock grant. They withheld the stock grant from our membership because they got cute and thought they knew best what to do with the stock grants. Consequently, it was distributed to us at a historic low after it cratered from $12.00 to $4.00 per share. I never intended to imply any sort of manipulation.
I am merely pointing out that screw ups of all kinds are possible when you are talking about stocks or stock options. Much of our membership does not have the knowledge necessary to manage or trade a stock option, regardless how the distribution is structured.
Give me everything in a hourly wage. Steady hourly wage is all the incentive I need.
P.S. I've got tickets to Georgia-Tennessee. I'm in the club section. I'll be the guy wearing red and black.
09-04-2014, 02:11 PM
#1497
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Originally Posted by orvil
If that happened, DALPA would hold back the stock, hire someone to try to sell the stock as a block, wait for the price to go to a historic low before releasing the stock.... Nah, that would never happen.
Let's just stay away from stock. Put it in my paycheck every month, month in, month out. Let Dick and Eddie play that game.
(I thought the B/S was a pretty good descriptor, too)
T-square,
You completely missed the point of my post. I was pointing out that DALPA, in their great wisdom completely screwed up the distribution of the second stock grant. They withheld the stock grant from our membership because they got cute and thought they knew best what to do with the stock grants. Consequently, it was distributed to us at a historic low after it cratered from $12.00 to $4.00 per share. I never intended to imply any sort of manipulation.
I am merely pointing out that screw ups of all kinds are possible when you are talking about stocks or stock options. Much of our membership does not have the knowledge necessary to manage or trade a stock option, regardless how the distribution is structured.
Give me everything in a hourly wage. Steady hourly wage is all the incentive I need.
P.S. I've got tickets to Georgia-Tennessee. I'm in the club section. I'll be the guy wearing red and black.
If that happened, DALPA would hold back the stock, hire someone to try to sell the stock as a block, wait for the price to go to a historic low before releasing the stock.... Nah, that would never happen.
Let's just stay away from stock. Put it in my paycheck every month, month in, month out. Let Dick and Eddie play that game.
(I thought the B/S was a pretty good descriptor, too
)T-square,
You completely missed the point of my post. I was pointing out that DALPA, in their great wisdom completely screwed up the distribution of the second stock grant. They withheld the stock grant from our membership because they got cute and thought they knew best what to do with the stock grants. Consequently, it was distributed to us at a historic low after it cratered from $12.00 to $4.00 per share. I never intended to imply any sort of manipulation.
I am merely pointing out that screw ups of all kinds are possible when you are talking about stocks or stock options. Much of our membership does not have the knowledge necessary to manage or trade a stock option, regardless how the distribution is structured.
Give me everything in a hourly wage. Steady hourly wage is all the incentive I need.
P.S. I've got tickets to Georgia-Tennessee. I'm in the club section. I'll be the guy wearing red and black.
I won't be going to the game. I will be on my 5th or 6th case of Jack Daniels that far into the season trying to dilute the pain. I am sure it won't be much of a game
09-04-2014, 02:29 PM
#1498
:-)
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,339
How do you sell concessions to keep the regional lifers employed, and with the same breath, talk about record contracts for your other constituents?
09-04-2014, 02:59 PM
#1499
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Carl, you know I support your style of thinking and wish more of my coworkers were like you. But...
As far as an alternative organization, I am here to tell you, if humans are involved ; ego, politics and greed will come into play. This is the nature of most humans. To be looked up at. To seek approval. To have power. It is built in our genes. Survival of the fittest. Most people think: what is good for them, is good for everybody..Cough Cough Pelosi and Franke
Trust me, a new organization will be the answer to all our problems: maybe for a year or two. Then the "same" people will take control and create the CLUB.
As far as an alternative organization, I am here to tell you, if humans are involved ; ego, politics and greed will come into play. This is the nature of most humans. To be looked up at. To seek approval. To have power. It is built in our genes. Survival of the fittest. Most people think: what is good for them, is good for everybody..Cough Cough Pelosi and Franke
Trust me, a new organization will be the answer to all our problems: maybe for a year or two. Then the "same" people will take control and create the CLUB.
Carl
09-04-2014, 03:07 PM
#1500
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
It's simply amazing how much DALPA's carefully crafted survey wording and format will lead us right where they want us to be: Concessions. With the company making record profits.
I sure hope we don't allow ourselves to get steamrolled by the company/DALPA tagteam again on C15.
I sure hope we don't allow ourselves to get steamrolled by the company/DALPA tagteam again on C15.
The only way out of this will be tossing those reps, then constantly reminding our reps that we won't be angry with them for voting down a TA that doesn't match their guidance. No matter what threats the MEC admins/management lay at their feet, no deal unless it meets the guidance.
Anything short of this and we'll get another COLA pay rate fully funded by concessions in other areas. Donatelli will proclaim it as a historic victory...then shred the survey results.
Carl
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