Originally Posted by sailingfun

United does get 42 days of vacation however not until 26 years of service. Did you look at their pay rates years 1 to 3 compared with Delta. If they dropped your entire trip how many pay protected hours are you getting?

Originally Posted by thefoxsays

One day

UAL also gets the 35 days at year 12... And DAL is 28 days.

Originally Posted by alfaromeo

Well, right back at you. Maybe you should go back and read some of what you have written in the past and see if you are just getting a taste of your own medicine here. My frustration is the continued hashing and rehashing of the same tired talking points, all completely invented. I guess your assertion that the reasoning behind the deal was all just a fairy tale meant to deliberately mislead the pilots is just nice guy talk? Don't dish it out if you can't take it.

The 717's were a good deal and so were the A-319's that they were looking at. The 717's were all or nothing so they had to find a way to unlock the financing and flying commitments on the 50 seaters in order to take the whole lot. If they couldn't get that, they would just take many fewer A-319's, keep a number of the 50 seaters, and let the 717's go elsewhere.

If the RJ-76's were not the key to unlocking the financing and flying commitments for the 50 seaters, then you must have some reason why all those third parties deliberately let Delta out of their contracts. Do you have an answer to that?

It shouldn't be too much to ask, that when you make definitive statements like "the 717's were coming anyway" that you have some logical explanation to back it up. You accuse me of lying about those aircraft and then get all touchy feely when it comes back at you.

Originally Posted by alfaromeo

Here we have another instance of made up propaganda...

...I see you have dredged up the same webboard talking points again, so we will try one more time to see if you can make an honest answer to a direct question....

Originally Posted by alfaromeo

If the 717's were going to come anyway, then why in the hell did management give us $1 billion 6 months early in order to get them?

Originally Posted by alfaromeo

Let's see if you can come up with some answer with even a shred of logic behind it.

Originally Posted by scambo1

It has been established by the company in various written and verbal pieces that the 717s were too good to pass up, cost swa over a billion to sell them to us, etc. this is with the benefit of hindsight that I definitively say today that the 717s were coming...the company was going to find a way to get them here.

It is somehow your contention that we pilots were the lynchpin in this financing scheme...not ever going to believe that...ever.

Originally Posted by scambo1

You can choose to believe whatever you want, but you poison the (reasoning) pool if you put your hope and theory out there as fact.

Originally Posted by slowplay

Ahh, scambo



btw, Alfa gave you lot of hints, and then asked you a direct question. Are you just going to "poison the pool"? Maybe an answer not based on "hope and change."

Hey, did any other company pick up about 30 used narrowbodies just 6 weeks after our deal?

Originally Posted by Alan Shore

I agree that the comparison did not show the differences between LOT and PBS bidding and all that one can do with each system, nor did I get any sense that it was trying to do so.

Originally Posted by CVG767A

+1!

Thanks for all the work you've done for the pilot group. It would be great if the whiners on this board would step up to the plate, and do the same, rather than whine about those that are doing the work.

Originally Posted by alfaromeo

There is no point in trying to make sense out of what Carl writes. As he gets more and more desperate to have some relevance somewhere, he just pumps up his story. It really is whack a mole; you debunk one story, he creates another. After some period of time he brings back story number one and claims he proved it simply because he said he proved it. There is no logic, there is no data, only propaganda. He is just a slick propagandist with no sense of integrity or ethics, he simply spews out whatever he thinks will aid his cause.

You can try to debunk his stories one by one, but it doesn't matter. For instance in this silly story he claims the NC threatened to resign. What he fails to mention is that if this occurred any MEC member worth a damn would simply say, "see you later" and get a new committee. Are there only four guys in the whole pilot group who can negotiate a contract? He can't even complete a train of thought to a logical conclusion, he just makes his accusation and then hopes some dupe buys it without really thinking it out.

In the end, he has only one idea. He thinks the representatives that were voted by the Delta pilots to the MEC are too weak and too stupid to represent the pilots. They are easily fooled by lame tricks and silly threats into buying into some evil agenda. Then the Delta pilots are too weak and too stupid to represent themselves. He can't accept their membership ratification vote and invents new excuses every week about why they voted for their contract.

Carl's answer is simple. Only he and his webboard friends have the guts and knowledge to make decisions for all of us, and so he needs to circumvent all our democratic processes and just do what he says. The tyranny of the minority. Of course he knows this will never happen, he is too much of a coward to ever actually have to stand up for a decision. He just sits behind his keyboard and barks out his tough guy stance. If he actually had to stand up and make a real decision he would wet his pants.

Therefore, he will continue to spew out his propaganda, day after day, week after week. Don't look for logic or consistency. Only look for a coward making himself look big behind a keyboard. Then you will truly understand his agenda.

Originally Posted by Hillbilly

Yeah, except that it wasn't. Raptor's very first post in this thread quoted the portion of your post that is in bold below. Your post didn't mention the contract comparison.

Originally Posted by Hillbilly

I am not discounting your statement regarding the vacation comparison though. It shows that we are behind FedEx, but the notes could have provided some additional details which would have shown the extent better.

Originally Posted by Hillbilly

I value feedback from guys like Raptor to enlighten us to some of the nuances of other contracts.