Details on Delta TA
08-31-2014, 05:30 PM
#1221
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2012
Position: ATL 7ER A
Posts: 308
You're a breath of fresh air around here, thank you for weighing in. I wish you guys nothing but luck in your ongoing Section 6 effort.
The RLA is onerous to labor at every step until release to self-help. The trouble with any attempt (by either side) to "fix" the RLA is that you could end up with something like S. 1327, the Airline Labor Dispute "Resolution" Act." Go ahead and google it, but you might want about three fingers of Jameson's after you're through reading. That is what it looks like when "labor risk is off the table." I'm pretty sure the AEI or the Club For Growth have plenty of ideas that would make us nostalgic for the RLA.
The problem of getting ahead has a lot of angles. Right now it's all about getting good direction from the membership; I think the negotiators need to know everything they can about the members' priorities, morale, and awareness of both the contract and the process by which we amend it. The words the MEC chooses are tremendously important. If you act like you peaked academically in high school, then the NMB won't take you seriously.
The NMB is a contest: each side trying to convince the Board that they have been logical and reasonable at every step, and that their counterparts are negotiating in bad faith. The APA forgot that, and it cost them $44 million in fines, plus the lost years between that brilliant maneuver and their next contract. Timing is everything, the time value of money isn't just a cliche, and the NMB isn't always Santa Claus. If you make it clear from the outset that you are planning for the NMB to force the outcome, you're toast.
As far as "divisions" go, I believe that there is always a noisy minority of the membership that will always vote against any TA; there's no pleasing some people, regardless of the progress we have made since 2007.
We are in an an auspicious position to begin negotiations, and I hope that our outcomes exceed even our abundant potential. We can get to a better place contractually, but we can't afford to pretend that tinpot populism can stand in for strategy.
08-31-2014, 05:50 PM
#1222
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 478
Our MEC chair was our strike prep guy for c2k. He was a pit bull then. Today, his letters don't read pitbullish, but I have to give him a small pass only because he wasn't elected and therefore does not have the political mandate which others either enjoy or at least think they have
I know he's a solid pro-labor advocate. Without question, that's true. As the strike prep guy, he exhibited strong leadership. That appears blunted currently, but as a somewhat middle of the road (DALPA politics) guy, I feel like he's possibly the best guy we could have for a contract negotiation.
I know he's a solid pro-labor advocate. Without question, that's true. As the strike prep guy, he exhibited strong leadership. That appears blunted currently, but as a somewhat middle of the road (DALPA politics) guy, I feel like he's possibly the best guy we could have for a contract negotiation.
08-31-2014, 06:11 PM
#1223
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,299
Thanks, Raptor. That sound exactly like what we received. I understand Carl to be concerned that we did not receive more detailed information as to exactly the opening position on pay rates, etc.
08-31-2014, 06:53 PM
#1224
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
I don't know and frankly don't care. It's unimportant. But I would guess because they don't know you are not Carl. there are a bunch of Carls out there that want to do anything they can to kill dALPA.
08-31-2014, 06:56 PM
#1225
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
By this logic, I don't see how there is any accountability. The remedy available to me (my reps) told me there was nothing they could do. Where is the accountability? Why doesn't my union trust me to see the data WE provided them?
I'm not a conspiracy theorist, DPA supporter, or any other agenda-driven agent. It's a reasonable request, and an unreasonable reply.
08-31-2014, 06:58 PM
#1226
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
I hope so too.
But surely there are other reasons to see the results. It seems cynical to think the only reason would be to cast "dispersions" or create a conspiracy theory.
How about plain old accountability? If the survey showed a majority would trade pay for coconut donuts on every flight, yet we never asked for them, that's not a "dispersion", it's a data point. I'm sure, like 99% of the guys I fly with, you're a good dude, and fairly smart. So am I. I can handle seeing the data without going all Area 51 on you.
Anecdotal evidence from the cockpit, says I'm not alone. But I stipulate they may have just been being polite and agreeing.
But surely there are other reasons to see the results. It seems cynical to think the only reason would be to cast "dispersions" or create a conspiracy theory.
How about plain old accountability? If the survey showed a majority would trade pay for coconut donuts on every flight, yet we never asked for them, that's not a "dispersion", it's a data point. I'm sure, like 99% of the guys I fly with, you're a good dude, and fairly smart. So am I. I can handle seeing the data without going all Area 51 on you.
Anecdotal evidence from the cockpit, says I'm not alone. But I stipulate they may have just been being polite and agreeing.
08-31-2014, 08:13 PM
#1228
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
08-31-2014, 08:27 PM
#1229
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Not really. You have no idea what goes on in the negotiations room. You do not know the give and take that is necessary to provide the result you see in the form of a TA. All you want is ammunition with which to begin your next assault. The ONLY thing that matters is if the product is satisfactory to YOU. Then vote accordingly. For example. I couldn't care less if the 747 pays $75/hour. (Of course I am guessing that now you believe that the 330 should pay as much as a 747 since you will be taking a paycut in the next 4 years... and that is probably what you can hold) I am never gonna fly it, therefore it doesn't affect me. But it does matter to you. If they came back with a survey that is more weighted to my POV, and it got voted in, my guess is that you would be pizzed anyway. If it comes back and says that we need $400/hour, you will be happy, but fTB probably won't because everything he might want to fly will get paid a lot less, or we have to give up on scope somewhere that affects him... or... whatever.
You too.
Carl
08-31-2014, 08:36 PM
#1230
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
Okay. Let me get this straight...
First, I realize that I have made this point again and again and again. In this particular case, I was making the point to someone who may or may not be familiar with it... but, yeah, anybody who has frequented the Delta threads over the past several years has seen me post about this numerous times.
So, shiznit... Do you think this is a point that doesn't need to be made? You don't think it's important or relevant that we took such massive cuts to the standard of living our compensation can support and, 10 years later with a completely polar opposite situation, the bulk of the massive cuts still stand? DALPA has clearly demonstrated that they have no objective or intention to restore our buying power. And no matter how much the issue is brought up with them, they just ignore the input and stay the course.
I know you guys would just LOVE for me to drop it. And you can try to embarrass me or make fun of me for it, but I'm not going to let you shut me up. Yeah, it's a funny picture and it makes a funny point. But I think it speaks volumes about YOU that you want all this swept under the rug. Humor aside, that's your real message.
First, I realize that I have made this point again and again and again. In this particular case, I was making the point to someone who may or may not be familiar with it... but, yeah, anybody who has frequented the Delta threads over the past several years has seen me post about this numerous times.
So, shiznit... Do you think this is a point that doesn't need to be made? You don't think it's important or relevant that we took such massive cuts to the standard of living our compensation can support and, 10 years later with a completely polar opposite situation, the bulk of the massive cuts still stand? DALPA has clearly demonstrated that they have no objective or intention to restore our buying power. And no matter how much the issue is brought up with them, they just ignore the input and stay the course.
I know you guys would just LOVE for me to drop it. And you can try to embarrass me or make fun of me for it, but I'm not going to let you shut me up. Yeah, it's a funny picture and it makes a funny point. But I think it speaks volumes about YOU that you want all this swept under the rug. Humor aside, that's your real message.
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