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02-21-2014, 06:07 AM

#951

GunshipGuy

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Jul 2007

Position: Permanently scarred

Posts: 1,707

The more senior FOs learn of this the more I better get used to being in the bottom 25% of my category.

02-21-2014, 06:30 AM

#952

DLpilot

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Mar 2008

Posts: 758

Quote:

Originally Posted by GunshipGuy

The more senior FOs learn of this the more I better get used to being in the bottom 25% of my category.

Look at the bright side, unless you want to stay in the same category like them then it gives you more opportunities to move into other positions.

02-21-2014, 07:04 AM

#953

contrails

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Mar 2005

Posts: 1,947

Evidently, some returning furloughees are having challenges too, as some have not flown any kind of airplane in more than a decade.

02-21-2014, 07:35 AM

#954

Oberon

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Joined APC: Apr 2008

Position: 757/767

Posts: 588

Will someone decode the acronyms used on this thread? It seems every company has different names for the same thing.

Also, the Embraer has a button that says "fly" which we push when we get to the airplane and we generally wake up at the "fifty" announcement on landing. From the sounds of this thread the -88 is slightly different than that?

02-21-2014, 07:44 AM

#955

Alan Shore

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Oct 2013

Posts: 1,299

Quote:

Originally Posted by scambo1

I have heard about this as a recent change here at DAL. From what I understand, about 1-2 years ago, DAL and ALPA came to terms on an agreement that 3 training failures meant it was time to go find another job. That includes recurrent or initial. My understanding is that there are several in my fleet who are potentially on their way out the door.

The "three strikes, you're out" rule has been in the Delta PWA for many years. However, line checks and CQ were exempted from the rule, such that a pilot who failed either could be forced out the door with no prior failures. The recent agreement of which you speak (LOA #30 December 2011) put line checks and CQ into the same "three chances" rule as qualification training.

Also important is that a training failure is much more than busting a checkride or oral. It is failing to make it through an entire training program after repeated attempts, counseling, retraining, etc.

02-21-2014, 08:09 AM

#956

Burn Notice

#WEDAT

Joined APC: Jul 2009

Position: 717a

Posts: 286

"If you try hard and have a good attitude, you will not fail!" Stan the Man-727FE Ground School-May 1997. Still works almost 17 years later. Welcome Aboard!!

02-21-2014, 08:20 AM

#957

Flyer5

Line Holder

Joined APC: Jan 2011

Posts: 52

Can anyone confirm how seniority is assigned at indoc? I've heard it's last 4 of SSN high to low, last 4 of SSN low to high, or a combination of these two alternating each class.

02-21-2014, 08:31 AM

#958

gloopy

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Joined APC: Jul 2010

Position: window seat

Posts: 12,544

Quote:

Originally Posted by Express pilot

I'm sorry, but that's bad advice. I know you have to do the CD, but it's really a waste of time, getting ground school from a CD on an airplane you have never seen before. You need LOD and Flows down day 1. I remember as a new hire showing up day 1 to FTD and didn't know much of any flows. I got ripped a new one. The way Delta has set up their training you need to show up a little prepared.

That's bad advice? That's how the vast majority of pilots here do it because that's how its structured. And you do not need flows on day one, though it does help to be familiar with them in general. If you RTFP you would have seen that this was a discussion about day one in indoc, not day one in aircraft training. I wasn't advocating showing up cold with only the CD, and why you were spring loaded to manifest that in what I said is a mystery.

Staying late every day during indoc to practice flows is idiotic IMHO and will result in negative training, over emphasis on trivial things and other bad habits. There will be plenty of time for that.

02-21-2014, 09:01 AM

#959

scambo1

The Brown Dot +1

Joined APC: Jun 2009

Position: 777B

Posts: 7,775

Quote:

Originally Posted by GunshipGuy

The more senior FOs learn of this the more I better get used to being in the bottom 25% of my category.

I think your concerns are not well founded. While most pilots cant even imagine how someone could fail recurrent, apparently there are "pilots" who go into it as a 50/50 proposition.

IOW, nobody goes into training to fail, but some folks apparently don't have the tools to regularly pass. Now, its 3 strikes...And GG moves up in his category.

02-21-2014, 09:07 AM

#960

Justdoinmyjob

Looking for a laugh

Joined APC: Feb 2008

Posts: 4,099

Not for nothing, but training here isn't that hard. Especially recurrent. If you can't do windshear profiles, V1 cuts, and understand procedures and profiles every 9 months in the sim, how are you capable of operating the airplane safely on the line?