DAL Poolie Info
03-15-2015, 07:08 AM
#3642
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,689
Thanks.
I think the lesson from the ATL717B stagnation for a new hire is to be careful about chasing a new category. Once they stop adding new seats, most everyone in category is seat locked and you're stuck where you are at with very little movement. I could see the same thing happening with LAX717B or SEA73NB, where guys think that the 717 will be a quick way to get to LA (or 73 to SEA) and instead they basically lock themselves out. I doubt that is the case yet as I think both categories are still growing.
Amazing how quick things change. 320 looked good a month ago, and now guys that picked it in the last couple classes may be stuck where they are at for a while. Last year, M88 was the quickest way to get to MSP, but now you can get there in a few months in the 7ER, while there are still a bunch of M88 guys that can't get there. The 7ER looks like a great play for a new hire right now (think about how ugly it looked when you were a new hire in Sep...) with so many unfilled vacancies every where, but eventually the train of new hires to the 7ER will come to a screeching halt as the 757 start to retire.
Bottomline for a new hire reading this, the best aircraft to get to where ever you want to go or gain seniority changes, sometimes monthly, so take anything you read on this forum with a grain of salt. And remember we are talking about stagnation in terms of months. Queue up anybody hired before 2014 on how they walked up hill in snow both ways to their sims during training, and saw no movement for years.
I think the lesson from the ATL717B stagnation for a new hire is to be careful about chasing a new category. Once they stop adding new seats, most everyone in category is seat locked and you're stuck where you are at with very little movement. I could see the same thing happening with LAX717B or SEA73NB, where guys think that the 717 will be a quick way to get to LA (or 73 to SEA) and instead they basically lock themselves out. I doubt that is the case yet as I think both categories are still growing.
Amazing how quick things change. 320 looked good a month ago, and now guys that picked it in the last couple classes may be stuck where they are at for a while. Last year, M88 was the quickest way to get to MSP, but now you can get there in a few months in the 7ER, while there are still a bunch of M88 guys that can't get there. The 7ER looks like a great play for a new hire right now (think about how ugly it looked when you were a new hire in Sep...) with so many unfilled vacancies every where, but eventually the train of new hires to the 7ER will come to a screeching halt as the 757 start to retire.
Bottomline for a new hire reading this, the best aircraft to get to where ever you want to go or gain seniority changes, sometimes monthly, so take anything you read on this forum with a grain of salt. And remember we are talking about stagnation in terms of months. Queue up anybody hired before 2014 on how they walked up hill in snow both ways to their sims during training, and saw no movement for years.
03-15-2015, 08:47 AM
#3643
Doing Nothing
Joined APC: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,316
Go easy on the newbies. Soon all the frustrations of the 2000s will be a thing of the past.
03-15-2015, 01:30 PM
#3645
Moderator
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 7,014
Thanks.
I think the lesson from the ATL717B stagnation for a new hire is to be careful about chasing a new category. Once they stop adding new seats, most everyone in category is seat locked and you're stuck where you are at with very little movement. I could see the same thing happening with LAX717B or SEA73NB, where guys think that the 717 will be a quick way to get to LA (or 73 to SEA) and instead they basically lock themselves out. I doubt that is the case yet as I think both categories are still growing.
Amazing how quick things change. 320 looked good a month ago, and now guys that picked it in the last couple classes may be stuck where they are at for a while. Last year, M88 was the quickest way to get to MSP, but now you can get there in a few months in the 7ER, while there are still a bunch of M88 guys that can't get there. The 7ER looks like a great play for a new hire right now (think about how ugly it looked when you were a new hire in Sep...) with so many unfilled vacancies every where, but eventually the train of new hires to the 7ER will come to a screeching halt as the 757 start to retire.
Bottomline for a new hire reading this, the best aircraft to get to where ever you want to go or gain seniority changes, sometimes monthly, so take anything you read on this forum with a grain of salt. And remember we are talking about stagnation in terms of months. Queue up anybody hired before 2014 on how they walked up hill in snow both ways to their sims during training, and saw no movement for years.
I think the lesson from the ATL717B stagnation for a new hire is to be careful about chasing a new category. Once they stop adding new seats, most everyone in category is seat locked and you're stuck where you are at with very little movement. I could see the same thing happening with LAX717B or SEA73NB, where guys think that the 717 will be a quick way to get to LA (or 73 to SEA) and instead they basically lock themselves out. I doubt that is the case yet as I think both categories are still growing.
Amazing how quick things change. 320 looked good a month ago, and now guys that picked it in the last couple classes may be stuck where they are at for a while. Last year, M88 was the quickest way to get to MSP, but now you can get there in a few months in the 7ER, while there are still a bunch of M88 guys that can't get there. The 7ER looks like a great play for a new hire right now (think about how ugly it looked when you were a new hire in Sep...) with so many unfilled vacancies every where, but eventually the train of new hires to the 7ER will come to a screeching halt as the 757 start to retire.
Bottomline for a new hire reading this, the best aircraft to get to where ever you want to go or gain seniority changes, sometimes monthly, so take anything you read on this forum with a grain of salt. And remember we are talking about stagnation in terms of months. Queue up anybody hired before 2014 on how they walked up hill in snow both ways to their sims during training, and saw no movement for years.
Guys,
Lets give Surd a break - he gets it. As you can see he realizes that stagnation in terms of months is relatively benign compared to what many have gone through.
Every time I hear someone mention stagnation and months in the same sentence I can't help but laugh.
Scoop
03-15-2015, 04:50 PM
#3646
Back on Reserve
Joined APC: Dec 2012
Position: A330 FO
Posts: 728
Unless there is another world event, I don't think anyone who enters a major will understand what true stagnation is in the next 10 years.
When the older generation (no offense; I'm a member) talks 'stagnation' they refer to sitting panel on a 3-place jet for 7-15 years before they can touch a yoke again. Or getting your dream job, and maybe even your dream aircraft/seat, but not being able to get to your desired base for 7-12 years because, instead of an AE every 6-8 WEEKs, the openings trickle in 2-4 slots every 6 months.
Another definition for the moderately-old guys is getting stuck at a regional for 15 years because the majors have been 'stagnant' and haven't hired.
If you are trying to read the tea leaves for what aircraft/base you should bid but are stressing about stagnation, stop stressing. Things are moving so fast it makes my head spin. (in a good way, right now) The staffing guys publish in every update 'bid what you want and want what you bid.' Check the aircraft that operate in your desired base and know that, with all the movement, you should be able to get to your base relatively quickly. No guarantees, but we're in some pretty good times.
When the older generation (no offense; I'm a member) talks 'stagnation' they refer to sitting panel on a 3-place jet for 7-15 years before they can touch a yoke again. Or getting your dream job, and maybe even your dream aircraft/seat, but not being able to get to your desired base for 7-12 years because, instead of an AE every 6-8 WEEKs, the openings trickle in 2-4 slots every 6 months.
Another definition for the moderately-old guys is getting stuck at a regional for 15 years because the majors have been 'stagnant' and haven't hired.
If you are trying to read the tea leaves for what aircraft/base you should bid but are stressing about stagnation, stop stressing. Things are moving so fast it makes my head spin. (in a good way, right now) The staffing guys publish in every update 'bid what you want and want what you bid.' Check the aircraft that operate in your desired base and know that, with all the movement, you should be able to get to your base relatively quickly. No guarantees, but we're in some pretty good times.
03-15-2015, 05:08 PM
#3647
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2008
Posts: 272
Unless there is another world event, I don't think anyone who enters a major will understand what true stagnation is in the next 10 years.
When the older generation (no offense; I'm a member) talks 'stagnation' they refer to sitting panel on a 3-place jet for 7-15 years before they can touch a yoke again. Or getting your dream job, and maybe even your dream aircraft/seat, but not being able to get to your desired base for 7-12 years because, instead of an AE every 6-8 WEEKs, the openings trickle in 2-4 slots every 6 months.
Another definition for the moderately-old guys is getting stuck at a regional for 15 years because the majors have been 'stagnant' and haven't hired.
If you are trying to read the tea leaves for what aircraft/base you should bid but are stressing about stagnation, stop stressing. Things are moving so fast it makes my head spin. (in a good way, right now) The staffing guys publish in every update 'bid what you want and want what you bid.' Check the aircraft that operate in your desired base and know that, with all the movement, you should be able to get to your base relatively quickly. No guarantees, but we're in some pretty good times.
When the older generation (no offense; I'm a member) talks 'stagnation' they refer to sitting panel on a 3-place jet for 7-15 years before they can touch a yoke again. Or getting your dream job, and maybe even your dream aircraft/seat, but not being able to get to your desired base for 7-12 years because, instead of an AE every 6-8 WEEKs, the openings trickle in 2-4 slots every 6 months.
Another definition for the moderately-old guys is getting stuck at a regional for 15 years because the majors have been 'stagnant' and haven't hired.
If you are trying to read the tea leaves for what aircraft/base you should bid but are stressing about stagnation, stop stressing. Things are moving so fast it makes my head spin. (in a good way, right now) The staffing guys publish in every update 'bid what you want and want what you bid.' Check the aircraft that operate in your desired base and know that, with all the movement, you should be able to get to your base relatively quickly. No guarantees, but we're in some pretty good times.
03-16-2015, 01:15 PM
#3649
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2013
Position: B-209
Posts: 46
I define stagnation as increasing mandatory retirement age by 5 years. The effect it had on EVERYBODY on the seniority list was essentially to take a snapshot of where you were seniority wise (and seat/equip wise) and you remained at that position for 5 extra years save a small handful of retirements. At the end of your career, you could map out a climbing seniority line with a long flat spot. Some of us spent 5 extra years at 15% from the bottom and some guys spent 5 extra years as a senior widebody captain. It was a rule that affected everyone differently. If and when they raise the age again, we should make it apply only to new hires going forward.
AC
AC
03-16-2015, 01:45 PM
#3650
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2011
Posts: 146
I define stagnation as increasing mandatory retirement age by 5 years. The effect it had on EVERYBODY on the seniority list was essentially to take a snapshot of where you were seniority wise (and seat/equip wise) and you remained at that position for 5 extra years save a small handful of retirements. At the end of your career, you could map out a climbing seniority line with a long flat spot. Some of us spent 5 extra years at 15% from the bottom and some guys spent 5 extra years as a senior widebody captain. It was a rule that affected everyone differently. If and when they raise the age again, we should make it apply only to new hires going forward.
AC
AC
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