MikeF16

Hmm, your post made me wonder so I looked up the law itself. I won't cut and paste the entire thing here since it is extremely lengthy but I will do so for the applicable area. There are a few exceptions, ie, since there is an age limit for an ATP that would be "legal" age discrimination, but as far as I can tell the law offers protection to all ages, not just old people. The reason for the law was because of discrimination against older people, but all groups seem to be protected.

Is there something buried later in the law, or more recent court cases which I'm missing which allow an employer to discriminate against younger people?

(a) Employer practices

It shall be unlawful for an employer-

(1) to fail or refuse to hire or to discharge any individual or otherwise discriminate against any individual with respect to his compensation, terms, conditions, or privileges of employment, because of such individual’s age;

(2) to limit, segregate, or classify his employees in any way which would deprive or tend to deprive any individual of employment opportunities or otherwise adversely affect his status as an employee, because of such individual’s age; or

(3) to reduce the wage rate of any employee in order to comply with this chapter.

(b) It shall be unlawful for an employment agency to fail or refuse to refer for employment, or other*wise to discriminate against, any individual because of such individual’s age, or to classify or refer for employment any individual on the basis of such individual’s age.

Oberon

I understand not all moves work out but there are companies out there now where there is no growth and no hope for upgrade right? Meanwhile Trans States and Compass are doubling in size. One guy here said Trans States is offering some sort of PIC program right out of the gate.

I'm sure there are borderline cases where it would be a coin flip to move but there are some places where it would be a no-brainer. If you are sitting in the middle of the list at a large regional with no projected growth you should probably explore your options.

Family situations are a huge obstacle to career progression. I couldn't in good conscience tell someone what is best for their family. I will say you are doing your family a disservice if you don't sit down and objectively look at the numbers. If the numbers say it makes sense to stay it's an easy choice but if the numbers say it makes more sense to move you need to have the conversation even if you don't end up leaving.

I'm obviously a proponent of making a move if and when it makes sense for your career. I, like half of american men, played a little poker during the great poker boom of the early 2000s. I rarely play anymore and wasn't ever very good but I did learn a few things; 1) once you put the money in the pot it doesn't belong to you anymore and you shouldn't make decisions based on that money and 2) if the odds say you should bet you should bet even if there is a greater chance of losing the hand than winning it (pot odds: e.g. a bet of $1 into a $5 pot makes sense even if your odds of winning are only 30%). It taught me to look objectively at numbers.

Anyway, it is a lot easier to make a move when you don't have a family that would be affected and sometimes a move will assure that you don't have a family to affect. I just think it makes sense to explore options.

badflaps

If you do not carefully plan your family around your aviation aspirations, you are quite likely to end up at 65 with 2 or 3 familial obligations.

lear700pilot

You are definitely right in needing to explore all options. It definitely isn't good on family if you don't choose what's right for them in the long run, but figuring that in this industry is such a crap shoot as we all know. One definitely needs to sit down and evaluate all options when making this decision. We've all seen how what seemed like a good decision then wasn't, or vice versa. Obviously hindsight is 20/20. I feel fortunate I'm not in that position that many are in in what to do. If all regionals paid a living wage at the beginning and had a fast upgrade then it would be a no brainier. Of course a perfect world is what we all wish for anyways.

gloopy

I don't think your age is a liability at all. I seriously doubt it factors into anything at any point. Your lack of PIC time is a liability, however you have several strong assets in your favor. I'd say that even without PIC time (especially if you have your bid in for "first available" and there just isn't any) you will still be offered multipile interviews in the coming few years. Possibly as soon as tomorrow, but likely in the 1-3 year range if I had to guess.

Based on where you are already, it can easily be implied that you would take an interview seriously and without any entitlement attitude/etc and prep to the best of your ability. Assuming that's the case, I'd say you have about an 75-80% chance of getting an offer from any interview you get as long as you do your part.

newKnow

Here's the Supreme Court case:

GENERAL DYNAMICS LAND SYSTEMS INC. v. CLINE

This is basically what should be taken away from the decision (referring to the Age Discrimination in Employment Act of 1967):

"...text, structure, purpose, history, and relationship to other federal statutes show that the statute does not mean to stop an employer from favoring an older employee over a younger one."

atooraya

Chasing a quick upgrade is exactly how I haven't upgraded yet with my 8 years in this industry. Also, I'm in the right seat at an LCC. Going to regional CA pay is about $40k/yr paycut. I'm literally paying for my turbine PIC and undercutting other airlines which is how Trans States got all those jets and Envoy guys are out on the street.

qball

Maybe things have changed a great deal since I did it...I got in to an AFRES unit and was checked out (and operational) in my unit aircraft in about 2 1/2 years from the time I applied (less than 2 years from start of OTS). Now...At the time I only had 125 hrs and a private license so it took a while to build the hours to get hired at a major...and in this hiring environment, maybe even that is too much time to risk. Not sure military is the route to go right now if you are already doing the regional or LCC thing. This is a ripe hiring environment the likes of which haven't been seen in quite some time...having said that, there are a lot of highly qualified prospects out there who have been waiting a loooong time. Good luck to all.

lear700pilot

If you hit all correctly it could turn out to be the time you mentioned. I'm not really sure anymore since I'm out of touch with that side of things. Just depends on how desperate they may be I figure. When I interviewed 7 years ago for an ANG unit I was told I'd have to wait about 1 year for OCS then after that it could take 3 month for UPT. Then get checked out on the plane, etc. all from start to finish before able to guard bumping it would be at least 3.5 years. I'm sure some units are different, but several others I was planning to interview with said about the same.

Talked recently to a guy at current regional that picked up for a heavy unit. He interviewed this past October. He stated could be January 2016 before UPT.

Flying Enoch

[/QUOTE]
I'm literally paying for my turbine PIC and undercutting other airlines which is how Trans States got all those jets and Envoy guys are out on the street.[/QUOTE]

Envoy's management is why Trans States AND EXPRESSJET are now doing Envoy's flying with their planes. If guys are loosing their jobs over there as a result of this acquisition, they should look up at their own management. And honestly, they should make the lateral move to get their PIC time with TSA's CQFO program, because certainly, they wouldn't be taking a 40k/year paycut. It sounds like you're fighting someone elses fight anyways. I understand you're reasoning for staying put, but if someone doesn't like a situation they're in, do something about it.