Stinsat7

Totally against any flow program or SSP. Not against the pilots getting hired under them, many in my class are great. Offering first dibs to Delta jobs in order to subsidize poverty level regional contracts is wrong for all involved. And I would've said the same thing as a regional guy. Measure everyone against objective criteria and let merit decide not entitlement.

Bucking Bar

Sounds like Delta management thinks, "well, they are already flying Delta passengers in a Delta jet, run by Delta management."

That has been kinda obvious to everyone but us for 15 years.

CGfalconHerc

But the high washout rate demonstrates that they are in fact, NOT, Delta pilots..regardless of where their paycheck comes from.

They are capable, professional, DCI pilots hired by numerous DIFFERENT airlines to fly small jets carrying pax from several DIFFERENT airlines to replace mainline pilots after 9/11 and the subsequent "lost decade".

Now, all they have to do is prepare, pass the tests, and have a good attitude during the interview like all the rest of us did. If they get the TBNT, then thank the interviewers for the opportunity, chalk it up as a learning experience, and move on to the next opportunity.

And FWIW, I do support the flow that was agreed to wrt FNWA furloughs..I'm glad DL is honoring that agreement but that's where it should end. With the current hiring environment, each airline should be able to select candidates without being restricted by some sort of extended flow. The airlines with the best pay, benefits, acft, flying, culture will attract the best applicants. DL should be allowed to filter candidates appropriately...JMHO

Dorfman

^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^

Bar I appreciate your passion for this but I want the best we can get to come to Delta. I know of more then a handful of Endeavor guys that should not be hired by Delta.

You can argue that they are already flying Delta paxs but just because you were hired by a regional desperate to fill a seat doesnt mean you get a free pass to mainline.

Bucking Bar

I believe the flows and SSP's should never have been negotiated. Those which exist should be sunset at the earliest opportunity.

The flows and SSP do nothing but facilitate cheap outsourcing. The programs do nothing to benefit Delta pilots.

Schwanker

The Compass flows are a bit different. NWA had solid scope prior to bankruptcy. The only jets above 50 seats were the 35 Avros (69 seats I believe). The Avros could not be replaced, once they were gone, they're gone. The rest of the commuter fleet consisted of a limited number of 50 seaters, larger number of CRJ-200s restricted to 44 seats and the Saabs.

During bankruptcy, the company was going to get some scope relief. NWA ALPA wasn't going to give it without giving the jobs to the furloughed folks. The existing regionals were not going to give the furloughed NWA pilots super seniority (seats to the new larger airframes) so NWA instead created Compass. These jobs were for current furloughees and also FUTURE furloughs. This created an excellent layer of furlough protection we still enjoy today. The flip side to this flow back was the flow through which was sunsetted with the transfer of ownership. Those who interviewed and were given jobs at Compass had (I believe) a 3 year minimum time there then a guaranteed flow after at a metered pace. Those who interviewed had roughly the same backgrounds and passed the same interview as those at NWA. Since the sale of Compass, the flow is no longer in place with the exception of those grandfathered, but the flowbacks are still there giving us an effective layer of furlough protection.

I could very well be off on a detail or two, but this is basically how it went down. In a sense, this flowback does benefit Delta pilots.

FL370

So true, so very true.

Purple Drank

Could say the same about the C12 requirement to hire 35% ALPA pilots. And we expended negotiating capital to get it.

Bucking Bar

Swanker,

I would direct you to the NWA MEC's "ZipLine" publications which explicitly explained how scope was exchanged for credits which were used elsewhere in the contract.

Many NWA pilots were good trade unionists and wanted those jobs on the NWA seniority list. The fatal flaw in the NewCo >>> Compas model was that management got the permission to create these jobs off the list, so that they were not NWA pilots, not then, not when we merged, and not now.

You are correct that Compass did something for mainline pilots, but it did very little. The more recent SSP does absolutely nothing for Delta pilots and has no reciprocity which might help us to avoid furloughs.

Better if theses were either:

• Mainline jobs, or negotiated to be mainline jobs, or
• Mainline jobs, negotiated with an end to permitted outsourcing

The only correct answer is for Delta flying to be done by Delta pilots.

For those of you reading this thread, that means more hiring of Delta pilots, more opportunities and better job security if we can make it happen.

Alan Shore

You know this in spite of our Negotiating Committee's repeated statements otherwise?

May I ask how?