gloopy

I guess. Its funny that if you believe in the true intent of liberty, private property and the ownership of rights you get a particular label, yet the corporatists get to hide behind the smoke screen of "capitalism" when they are no where near that and the socialists hide behind the banner of "democracy" which, by the way, is an awful form of government that we were expressly set up to avoid becoming.

In any case there is a correction coming when the completely unpayable bill for the path we've been on comes due. The question is will we embrace liberty (finally) or pursue the populist temptations of crises like many hundreds of millions before us have mistakenly done.

To keep it relevant, libertarians use a lot more of their brains and therefore score higher on the cog test at DL which is why they are hired with extreme prejudice. Bwahahahahahahaha!

Bucking Bar

As long as Lee Moak allows his pilot group to negotiate "Delta Flying" without the knowledge or participation of the Delta pilots we are equals.

gloopy

Not even close. There is a quantum difference between negotiating for a small minority portion of the flying we already allowed to be outsourced in the first place and "bidding" on 777 flying or whatever.

Worse case (for us) it makes it hard or for the sake of arguement impossible for us to "get back" those 40 large RJ's. That won't exactly be a crisis though until we first get back the other 200+ ones currently flying around the system with no such protections. If anything, he engaged in predatory bargaining against other DCI carriers. Some of which are ALPA. Perhaps they can throw a junk DFR his way since thats all the rage these days.

TeddyKGB

....................

Bucking Bar

Please explain, in distinct and binding legal terms what the "quantum difference" you refer to, is?

Politically there may be a difference, but politics are changeable, as are politicians.

The precedent has been made, that the Delta PWA can be modified externally without our input. Whether the modification is minor, or major, is a matter of perception.

gloopy

The difference is so massive its obvious.

What they have done is essentially negotiate for what we allow to be outsourced. We allow a certain number of 76 seat RJ's to be outsourced and they secured a tiny portion of that. That is a far cry indeed from them negotiating for our 717/737/757/777 flying because that flying is not allowed to be outsourced. Yes there is the JV process, but what PCL did doesn't magically put them on the other side of that line either.

Absolute nuclear armageddon worst case for us WRT this is that PCL now somehow permanently owns 40 CRJ-900's worth of flying, and that's even somehow assuming their ownership could somehow transcend the duration of the CBA that brought it about in the first place. All of those CRJ-900's they "own" (again, worst case scenario for us) in no way mean they now own the process of unlimited scope transfer without our knowledge or conscent. They secured a tiny portion of the hamburger we tossed into the DCI piranha tank. SKYW, inc. has "owned" a far larger portion of DCI flying for a decade already and they aren't RFP-ing us out of 757 flying.

And what difference does it make anyway if they "own" 40 out of the 300+ large RJ's if we're not interested in taking back a single one in the first place? When we get down to the last 40, then its an issue.

Bucking Bar

Gloopy,

You are looking at this through subjective, political, eyes.

I wish that every person had to go through a little bit of law school, or even a basic computer programming class. You look at the system, as defined objectively by rules.

The breakdown in ALPA's processes authorized by President Moak provides a capability for unilateral, predatory, bargaining. The "program" has allowed that output.

John Carr

Sorry, just curious, but was ANY legal action taken on this matter?

You know, along the lines of your standard mantra of "pilots need to manage their own union" etc.

And I'm not just talking about you getting the ear of the MEC chair, I'm talking about the MEC taking it to management over what they can and can't do, externally modify the PWA WITHOUT being in a bankruptcy type situation.

Where is this written in any constitutional by-laws or elsewhere? And does it SPECIFICALLY have Moak (the joke)'s name on it?

Mesabah

No, because it was ALPA, if the Teamsters had done this, all Hell would have broken loose.

Bucking Bar

No action has ben taken formally.

The operative provisions of ALPA's governing documents which I believe were involved are:

• The right of autonomy provided the Delta Master Executive Council as embodied in Article IV, Section 2.
• Administrative Manual, Section 40, Part 1, Paragraph 3 which require a meeting and review of opening scope proposals among any pilot group within a mainline / express system.
• Administrative Manual, Section 40, Part 5, Paragraph 10, stipulating a “best effort” be made to secure first right of interview for displaced pilots.

There were also numerous apparent violations of concessionary bankruptcy bargaining, but the effect of these do not directly effect Delta pilots.

ALPA serves as our exclusive bargaining agent, meaning management deals with whoever ALPA's President authorizes. Some pilots have been pushing to elevate the Delta MEC to our "Recognition" section so as to prevent Delta Management from engaging in negotiations involving Delta flying without the knowledge and involvement (at our discretion) of the Delta pilots' representatives.

... and Lee Moak should not be referred to in disparaging terms. He is the President of our Association and aside from my (perhaps trivial to many pilots) issue, he has done an outstanding job with issues which truly matter. President Moak and I disagree, but he has my respect and admiration.

(written on my phone, sorry for grammar or spelling errors)