Mesabah

ALPA will continue to secure Delta jobs for its regional pilot members, no matter the method. This is a business decision made at National. ALPA is first and foremost a business, it is a union second. This aspect can never be "fixed", it's akin to asking a fish not to be a fish. You have to find a work around, as mainline pilot voting or unity means nothing, they will do it in secret, as you have already seen.

Bucking Bar

A business case can be made for unity.

Absent ALPA, I believe management would engage in the same sort of bargaining. ALPA is the best option to get a handle on it, because through ALPA we can work together.

pb4ufly

... or a hippo, not to be a hippopotamus.

Pancake

Thanks for the encouragement, but my comments were intended for the "experiment" discussion. In particular, is DL abstaining from interviewing DCI pilots who are not part of a flow or SSP, in lieu of those programs? I'm not asking this specifically because I haven't been called. However, my anecdotal observation, based on mil pilots I personally know flying DCI, and the number of pure mil and mil/121 (all non-DCI) folks I know who have been called, I'm starting to wonder... If there is some statistical significance in this assertion, I think we'd all agree it would be beneficial to be at a non-DCI regional if applying to DL outside of the SSP. Again, just a business strategery (my fav Bushism) question, nevermind the secondary and tertiary implications...

I know my time will come... Just interested in the business aspect of this. I do admit, I have second thoughts about coming to a regional. Although, I really do enjoy the flying, crews, and customers, and I'm learning a lot. QOL is a bear, though, especially coming off AD. My choice to live with...

scambo1

I think it is really impossible to answer your question without the
Benefit of hindsight.

IMO, your mil quals trump anything you will accrue at a DCI. There is a mixed bag of former mil ie veterans flying in the regionals. Some were never mil pilots, some were helo only, some were grunts, etc. The veteran status MAY have some benefit, but the mil pilot stink is IMO the gold.

I'm not saying this to wedge some divide in the mil vs civ debate...I am only responding to your individual circumstance and question. As to whether DCI versus any other regional, that is the question only answerable with hindsight.

Beer Man

FWIW I know a DCI guy that got hired earlier this month not through the flow or SSP. RJ captain without mil experience.

Bucking Bar

If there are a limited number of opportunities and a requirement to make a large portion of those opportunities available to a favored class, there will be fewer opportunities for those who do not enjoy a special status.

It is a zero-sum game.

This is one reason why I believe the agreement is a violation of the Delta pilots' contract. The Delta pilots negotiated preferential interviews for ALPA members who had lost their jobs due to no fault of their own and those pilots who had reciprocated by providing an opportunity for Delta pilots who similarly might lose their employment.

Pinnacle / Endeavor re-ordered this language to favor their own, senior, employed, Captains without reciprocity to Delta pilots.

The Company (and ALPA's) violations of the Delta Pilot Working Agreement aren't all that enforceable without ALPA leading the charge (which they clearly are not going to do, after all ALPA's President signed off on the unilateral [change][conflicting language] to the Delta PWA). Concomitantly currently employed Delta pilots have not lost anything of value. Mostly these provisions were designed to promote unity. When they were attacked the harm is to unity. The corollary is the lowering of standards, compensation and working conditions - which is always the result of disunity. Pinnacle did this, now some of their pilots must live with the results.

It is difficult to prove disunity lowers the profession while such negotiations are taking place ... but the trend lines are obvious in retrospect.

BigLebowski

FWIW - I'm DCI, non-SSP or flow, and have been hired. There were 3 others in my interview group with similar backgrounds that were also successful.

John Carr

Man BB, I gotta say that you're an interesting character and your views on this make me scratch my head;

So you're saying that 9E got to 100% call the ball on this? They got to tell DAL/DALPA how it was going to be?

9E voted in the TA, so they shoulder SOME of the responsibility. But that doesn't change the FACT that there's plenty to go around. Haven't we covered this territory PLENTY?

Also, I'm curious, although I'm pretty sure I know the answers. When you were at your pervious employer, did you EVER have the BK/"gun to your head"/"vote in this TA or else" scenario to your head? And NO, the DAL BK doesn't count. I DON'T remember your former carrier being faced with a concessionary TA. And in your time at DAL, you ALSO haven't been faced with that scenario. Maybe the memory is short, but the post 9/11 BK era is littered with that example.

I've been in that position TWICE, and voted "NO" each time. Didn't matter. Sorry, but you're perspective on this ISN'T steeped in personal experience of what exactly that situation is like. If it is, I am truly sorry and feel free to correct me IF you have PERSONALLY been in that situation.

And please, DON'T bother chewing up PM bandwidth trying to clarify your position on this or dig yourself out a hole. It's not necessary, we'll just have to simply "agree to disagree".

Wmuav8r

Heya BB, if you want reciprocity Endeavor is currently hiring. I am sure they would probably give you a interview veeeery soon. They would love to have you! Sorry, couldn't resist!!