RunFast

As a single seat guy, that first 4 day was a blur (humbling, yes), but the learning curve was steep as far as operating procedures.

I found the most difficult part was flying with different Captains with minimal briefing (eg one wants high and fast to save gas vs the one who wants you to get configured early and the differences in applying "standard" procedures). It was easy to confuse technique vs procedure. After about three months you get comfortable and can begin to be more proactive vs reactive. It's a matter of data points and the amount of variables intoduced.

buzzpat

That is precisely my point. Just trying to give the new hire military guys a dose of reality.

Timbo

You should have seen it before "The summer of 1987" and the advent of CRM.

I thought it was much more fun before then, you could basically do what ever you wanted to do, as long as you didn't kill anyone. Checklists were optional, there were no headsets, no WARTS/NATS briefings, and very little automation. You just flew the 727 like it was an airplane, because it was. As a newhire F/E, I got lots of landings on the 727. The Newbs got to sit on the panel for a few years to watch and learn, so even the single seat and boat guys had figured out what was going on by the time they got to the right seat.

The pilots were much better then too, stick and rudder wise, because they hand flew every approach. And they had to think for themselves, because there was no standardization, vs. doing every thing with the standardization and all the automation like we do today. Today's pilots are great FMS programmers, and button pushers, and briefers, but pretty weak stick and rudder wise.

Yes, our safety record is much better today, but the "fun" part of the flying is pretty much gone.

buzzpat

That was exactly my experience and I flew heavies.

badflaps

" Hey Jimmy go back and see what's left in the galley, I'm gonna let the kid chase his altitude for a while."

RunFast

That's a valid critique....one I left for the training department on all three airplanes I've trained on.

I have found the majority of Captains have been a bit leery to "let" me hand fly more and I rarely see them doing the same. I've also been on/off MLOA quite a bit, so I'm always fighting recency issues.

But I prefer the stick and rudder flying of my night job.....especially PAC off.

Timbo

One cold, early morning while taxiing out in ORD, after a late St. Patty's night, the Capt. turns around and says to me, "You think you can find Miami? Larry (the F/O) is going to sleep, I'm going to read the paper, you're going to take us home." He got out of his seat and took mine, and I found MIA, Larry never even woke up. Great fun back then!

As you know, the personal dynamic with a Capt, F/O and young engineer was what made it fun. It was always two against one when it came to pranks. And if the Capt. was a prick, the other two would work together to punk him. Some of the pranks the two up front would play on the new engineers were hilarious.

The best part was you could fart, any time, and deny it, pointing at one of the two other guys.

Not so with only two of us up there!

buzzpat

I wasn't dissing anybody. It was taken out of context. If you'd read my initial post, it was a forewarning to military guys, like I was, that they should not assume that based on their military expertise, the Delta world will be a piece of cake. Because, no matter how many combat sorties, or bombs dropped, or international flying time, it isn't the same.

Don't judge.

Elliot

Buzz,

I was offended.

GJ

buzzpat

Actually, THAT was my intent GJ!