Jack Bauer

Listen, RA is a smart guy. He sees the on time numbers getting better, good write ups in Fortune, etc and the brand getting good recognition. The ability to get your employees on board where others are failing shows good leadership.

Let him/management know that things could get ugly (no more constructive engagement, letter writing, smooth/on time operations) if he doesn't step up and spend a few more dollars to do this right. The pilots are due. Its time. No more games.

I believe RA wants to keep the happy MOJO flowing forward and in fact it will be one of the keys to success. If he loses the pilots along the way the whole operation can jump the tracks. A lot of pilots I have flow with the past several years have worked hard to do all they could to be on time and make the customers happy with the idea there is a payout coming. If that doesn't happen everybody stops caring.

The problem is, the guys on the NC/ALPA have potentially gotten so cozy with management and caught up in the whole "we are setting history getting a deal done so fast" that they may not be willing to say "Hey this is an insult. You are about to have over 10,000 pi$$ed off pilots that can have a very negative effect on the bottom line and the goodwill created up until this point....you can still make billions of dollars even if you pay your pilots a wage that will keep them content along with work rules/scope they can live with.

One Taco

Bar,

I agree with a lot of the things you say, particularly on unity (hence the reference). I was just trying to point out the different nature of the NC's position. Their leverage is all positive in that the company is motivated to reach this TA based on the value it would bring them (whatever that is). You and I don't really know what value this might bring to them.

For all I know, they've got a check mate move planned out for this late summer and they just need to settle with us to refinance some debt, and the value would be accretive in the form of the competitive dominance they could enjoy henceforth. Whatever it is that they've got planned, and however much it's worth to them to execute that plan with a PWA in their back pocket, that is the only thing motivating this negotiation right now.

I agree, they don't negotiate benevolently. So our NC has positive leverage in this sense, but, obviously no ability to pressure negatively with work action.

But my other point was just that if our union is complicit with the company in selling the pilot group down the river by buying us off just to say we've have a few percentage points pay raises in the next 3 years, then management could also be seen to have a more aggressive motive as well, of accentuating our disunity by undermining DALPA. If such a deal, weak on scope, nominal pay raises passes the MEC, that's when I look at finding new representation - NOT if that's all the NC can produce. Because, we have no negative leverage.

The NC has done their job. I appreciate their service. I look forward to reading the full TA. What the MEC does will determine for me how to judge DALPA.

We shall see. I don't believe these numbers yet - and I want to see the TA for myself. This is all hypothetical based on the 4 8 3 3 numbers rumored. This doesn't even speak about scope, which I was very clear about in the survey I did. Just conjecture.


= a whole 'nuther level!
+ conjecture
rumors

fisherpilot

Great Post!

FlyZ

Personally I'd be very surprised if the NC happily agreed to a raise that small in such a short time. The rumors were that they hadn't even discussed pay until a couple of days ago, right? Would they really only spend a day or two on it if the company produced such a lowball offer? I don't know a single person who put numbers that low in their survey, so I think the average must have been higher than that.

Any chance they will release the survey results along with the TA?

forgot to bid

Thanks to the RLA time is never on our side, we have no leverage when it comes to time that I can think of.

We're being handed that leverage right now for a reason beyond what I'd care to contemplate about. Do we use it?

Hopefully we did already. I'm not buying into any numbers until it's published, it's frankly a waste of energy.

finis72

Scambo, Bar has a valid and big picture view. There are 3 other legacy carriers in extended negotiations with no end in sight. AA pilots on average will give up 45 k this year alone if the APA had accepted 5%/year when they started negotiations( compounding is a wonderful thing). Not saying I agree completely with Bar but if the company stonewalls us we could still be in negotiations when this TA is amendable and that's money you might never get back. Now if the NMB releases UCAl for self help and they're allowed to strike maybe we can make bigger gains. Personally I don't see that happening anytime soon.
If the TA comes to us we all get a say with our vote, hopefully it is better than rumored.

Bigflya

DING, DING, DING. You hit the nail on the head. Let's look at the big picture. Mgmt cannot give us a huge pay raise on the published pay scales or the other labor groups will be looking for their "me too" they've always had. Keeps the other unions off the property. They most likely offered "shadow" pay raises like the announced increases in reserve ALV, or things like 5:15 per calendar day regardless of start time. Makes those 10:30-12:30 crappy three days with a red eye on the backside always in open time worth 15:45 for the same amt of work. Increases in vacation/training credit also I imagine plus some other stuff. I just don't (and never did) see mgmt giving a big % pay raise other groups will point to and get ****ed about. If it's 4,8,3,3 then add a few extra hrs a month for the same amt of work and it may come to more like 6,12,5,5. If its a three year deal and you get 6 then the 12 less than six months later on top of the six, that's like getting 19-20% equivalent on the ammendable date. For me its about scope. I came hear post BK so I knew the pay rates/retirement situacion. 20% sounds good but don't give me the reach around on scope.

scambo1

Bar is generally very well thought out.

If the company stonewalls us, fine. It is their opportunity that brought us here and that is one element from which we draw leverage.

The rumored TA pay wont pass muster. If it is the best the NC could do with one day to negotiate, great. In that case, they should take more days, weeks or months.

Personally, I can't believe they would deliver this low of a payrate. As had been said before, RA is a smart guy. He opened this pandoras box of expedited negotiation, he can't close it on the cheap.

If this rumor is true and passes the MEC, not only will there be a loss of labor peace, but there will be painful upheaval in other areas.

I for one can't believe this rumor is accurate.

from one of my earlier posts:
If this rumor has any basis in fact, I would NOT expect to see a TA unless:

DCI went away. Section 1 was 100% fixed. DC contribution went to the 415C limit. Profit sharing stayed. 500 early retirements were incentivised. etc.

In this case, I might consider voting yes.

I have also emailed my reps.

NWA320pilot

We have leverage...... Go and ask a few North guys about BOB or how to apply leverage/pressure.

forgot to bid