Tomcat

I completely agree with you Carl. I'm in a demographic that has seen long stagnation. I've lost my pension, so the only way to recover from my furlough and the loss of my pension is to get my career earnings up. How do I do that? Move to the left seat! It's quite simple and I'm not going to make it more complicated than it needs to be. Anything that delays my upgrade is a no vote from me. Things are going to start moving very fast around here and I don't want to feel in a couple of years that we left something on the table.

Leadership. Last decade was terrible for the legacy pilots. Now the regional pilots are getting hammered. Let's restore our contract and get this scope issue straightened out. It all has to play out. There will be winners and losers. There are pilots at the regionals that have no ambition to move onto the Majors and that's fine, but I'm not going to have a hand in larger or more RJ's winding up at regionals. What I would like to see when I walk out the door of Delta Air Lines is that in some small part we all helped restore this career. If I'm going to belong to a National Union, I want a better vision of what an Airline Pilots career should look like. I had a ALPA LEC tell me last year that is not ALPA's job. Well, I disagree and if we can't do a better job, then perhaps we shouldn't belong to a National Union. This is ALPA's chance to set thing right.

So Carl, I've shown my hand. I look at life through my John Lennon rose colored glasses because I chose to. I told you, I'm a lover, not a fighter.... but I'm no dove and not afraid to pull my sword out of it's scabbard when needed, and certainly not afraid to vote down an unacceptable TA.

TC

tsquare

I don't think that has anything to do with the oil desk.. unless I missed something

gloopy

Trololo!

Yeah, over 6000 pilots are gone in 7 years. Right. Not only is that drastically innacurate (as in not even remotely close to being close) not all of those in the drastically smaller number that what you estimated who will retire under this contract are so quick so sell out not only their fellow company pilots but also the entire profession as you are.

I can't wait to cancel out your vote.

Denny Crane

80,

You say above that the ALV+15 would rarely be used. I think, in the short term, you would be correct but in the long term (within a couple years) you would be incorrect. If the company gets this they will slowly but surely pare down the reserves in a category and, in a couple of years, you now have 10 fewer Capts. and 20 fewer FO's in category.(Numbers pulled out of a hat but you get the point.) That's when you will see many more reserve guys at ALV+15.

On another note, I just don't see how the Company can be offering early outs in this negotiation. Delta knows that this is going to be a pretty big gain for the pilots. Gains generally mean more pilots which means hiring. What the NNP shows is how some of the gains we make in manning, like more vacation, will potentially be offset. Not saying I'm for or against. I want to see the whole agreement.

Denny

Bucking Bar

Can you elaborate on what you like so far?

As it stands, the Negotiator's Notepad will result in a pay cut for lineholders and downward movement for every one.

Bucking Bar

Early outs are a solid indication that this "agreement" results in a staffing surplus. You make a good point. If the bodies don't come from the top, they can come from the bottom.

gloopy

It would make it harder to get green slips the day after its implimented. But in an AE or two the company will simply adjust the reserves down by using them more and cover the rest with green slips. IOW, fewer pilots for the same amount of work.

The rub in all of this is that *some* of the bad stuff has already been leaked, but we're being encouraged to hold fast and wait to read the entire TA for the good stuff, which by the NNP's own admission is mostly still being negotiated.

That is a very bizzare way of negotiating and an even more curious way of selling it to the pilot group. Someone pointed out that it almost seemed like someone on the inside was using the NNP as a semi-veiled call for help. Not sure if that's the case or not, but its at least plausible.

In any case, we have got to stop letting "contract time" be synonymous with more large "RJ's". 255 is way, way more than enough. Yeah I know, they'll give the entire airline to Emirates unless we allow more 76 seaters, in which case they will plug those holes for us. Right.

Bucking Bar

I wrote a decade ago that Delta's outsourcing would reduce the leverage of the Delta MEC and result in a long term negative trend vector for Delta pilots along a path of lower lows and highs.

We are negotiating Richard Anderson's "cost neutral" contract.

Bill Lumberg

That was the ORIGINAL deal, but BP took over for JP Morgan at the last minute. I don't think they are involved now.

Jack Bauer

I agree. I know some guys who don't fly much on reserve right now that love it (one option currently available...especially in the winter... to spend time with family and get things done at home for a minor pay cut) and some who are chompin at the bit to fly more.

The latter group will be happy with the ALV+15, the former will find it to be hell. Even the guys wanting to fly right now may find themselves working more than they like and health declining, etc. I think it would be a big mistake to allow more forced flying. Also, you know the company will manipulate the numbers to get the staffing as short as possible and guys to go to the ALV + 15 as often as possible. They have shown time and again they will push as far as any system allows them to.

I might be misunderstanding you but not sure where you get the notion what has been proposed in the NNP increases staffing? I see just the opposite, which btw = more stagnation.