Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
07-08-2009, 08:50 PM
#9801
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Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Urban chicken rancher.
Posts: 6,070
When did he ask for his own locker room?
Someone sounds a little bitter still about the NFC championship game. LOL As a life long packer fan you should know he was the only thing going for that team. Now that he is gone here comes the Lynn Dickey years all over again. If he signs with the Vikings I'm going to that game in Green Bay. Should be fun.
Someone sounds a little bitter still about the NFC championship game. LOL As a life long packer fan you should know he was the only thing going for that team. Now that he is gone here comes the Lynn Dickey years all over again. If he signs with the Vikings I'm going to that game in Green Bay. Should be fun.
07-08-2009, 09:07 PM
#9802
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Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 765-A
Posts: 6,844
"Delta 123, you're cleared to "descend VIA the SEAVU2," and then cleared the ILS 25 left, maintain 180 until LIMMA and contact tower."
You guys can fly an VNAV/RNAV arrival to an ILS off the FMS without further guidance? If I'm not mistaken, and I might be, it takes pre-programmed VNAV descents, FMS guidance, and glass to make it happen. I'm an old school C-141 guy so I get it. But they don't give you vectors or speeds into LA. You start your descent over Phoenix and its all via the box. Otherwise, they throw you out over Seal Beach and you're screwed.
Are you telling me that all the arrivals into LAX are RNAV only? Because, unless something has changed in the last 10-12 years, that's not the case. I've descended on the CIVET and MITTS (which I guess is gone now) with nothing but an old 727-200, two VOR's, 2 DME's, a second officer, two brains using the 3:1 ratio, some comunication between those brains, and the L.A. Lakers or the Clippers in the back. We went to LAX in the 727-200 for the NBA charters all the time, with the same equpiment the DC-9 has today. Did something change?
On the East coast, we descend on whatever arrival that is going into LGA all the time. There is one we do into DCA/IAD as well. Why is LAX so special? (you are making me go look it up...here it is.... "Northwest 312, descend via the KORRY 3" [into LGA])
New K Now
Last edited by newKnow; 07-08-2009 at 09:35 PM.
07-08-2009, 09:21 PM
#9803
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Urban chicken rancher.
Posts: 6,070
Buzz,
Are you telling me that all the arrivals into LAX are RNAV only? Because, unless something has changed in the last 10 years, I've descended on the CIVET and MITTS (which I guess is gone now) with nothing but an old 727-200, two VOR's, a second officer, two brains using the 3:1 ratio, and the L.A. Lakers or the Clippers in the back. We went to LAX all the time im the 727-200 for the NBA charters, with the same equpiment the DC-9 has today. Did something change?
On the East coast, we descend on whatever arrival that is going into LGA and whatever arrival that is going into DCA all the time. Why is LAX so special? (you are making me go look them up...)
New K Now
Are you telling me that all the arrivals into LAX are RNAV only? Because, unless something has changed in the last 10 years, I've descended on the CIVET and MITTS (which I guess is gone now) with nothing but an old 727-200, two VOR's, a second officer, two brains using the 3:1 ratio, and the L.A. Lakers or the Clippers in the back. We went to LAX all the time im the 727-200 for the NBA charters, with the same equpiment the DC-9 has today. Did something change?
On the East coast, we descend on whatever arrival that is going into LGA and whatever arrival that is going into DCA all the time. Why is LAX so special? (you are making me go look them up...)
New K Now
Yes, to the best of my knowledge (and my personal experience every week for the last year or so) the arrivals are solely RNAV. There may be exceptions for aircraft that are unequipped but my experience, and I fly the 800, are 100% RNAV arrivals. I do hear the occasional private jet coming in, and they are treated differently, but the commercials all fly the same arrivals to the same conclusion.
My experience going into ATL is similar although I do hear Atlanta Center asking aircraft if they are "equipped." They don't offer that deal into LAX. You can fly into Burbank, or Ontario, or Orange County without the RNAV arrivals but LAX is almost completely RNAV. Again, I could be wrong, but when I come in, everyone is complying. Its too busy not to. Perhaps, LA would allow DAL to bring in the occasional DC-9 but I can't fathom that regular arrivals would be welcome.
Buzz
07-08-2009, 09:44 PM
#9804
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 765-A
Posts: 6,844
New
Yes, to the best of my knowledge (and my personal experience every week for the last year or so) the arrivals are solely RNAV. There may be exceptions for aircraft that are unequipped but my experience, and I fly the 800, are 100% RNAV arrivals. I do hear the occasional private jet coming in, and they are treated differently, but the commercials all fly the same arrivals to the same conclusion.
My experience going into ATL is similar although I do hear Atlanta Center asking aircraft if they are "equipped." They don't offer that deal into LAX. You can fly into Burbank, or Ontario, or Orange County without the RNAV arrivals but LAX is almost completely RNAV. Again, I could be wrong, but when I come in, everyone is complying. Its too busy not to. Perhaps, LA would allow DAL to bring in the occasional DC-9 but I can't fathom that regular arrivals would be welcome.
Buzz
Yes, to the best of my knowledge (and my personal experience every week for the last year or so) the arrivals are solely RNAV. There may be exceptions for aircraft that are unequipped but my experience, and I fly the 800, are 100% RNAV arrivals. I do hear the occasional private jet coming in, and they are treated differently, but the commercials all fly the same arrivals to the same conclusion.
My experience going into ATL is similar although I do hear Atlanta Center asking aircraft if they are "equipped." They don't offer that deal into LAX. You can fly into Burbank, or Ontario, or Orange County without the RNAV arrivals but LAX is almost completely RNAV. Again, I could be wrong, but when I come in, everyone is complying. Its too busy not to. Perhaps, LA would allow DAL to bring in the occasional DC-9 but I can't fathom that regular arrivals would be welcome.
Buzz
If the plate doesn't say RNAV only, a DC-9 can do it. All we need are the VOR frequencies, radials, altitudes, and speeds. The last two go into our head for some mental math.
Don't you use that with your FMC still? Sometimes those things are off.
Or, at least they were on our 757's. Sometimes, they would show you right on, right on, right on, then in the last 30 miles all of a sudden you were 6000+ feet high We had to back it up mentally, just in case. I just looked on FlightAware.com and checked out the CIVET 5 into LAX. Piece of cake.
New K Now
Last edited by newKnow; 07-08-2009 at 11:18 PM.
07-08-2009, 10:29 PM
#9805
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Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: DAL Pilot
Posts: 1,133
There are PLENTY of arrivals into LAX that don't require RNAV. The DC-9 could go in there without a problem. PHX has a bunch of non RNAV arrivals, also.
07-08-2009, 11:26 PM
#9806
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Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: Dreamniner
Posts: 352
"Delta 123, you're cleared to "descend VIA the SEAVU2," and then cleared the ILS 25 left, maintain 180 until LIMMA and contact tower."
You guys can fly an VNAV/RNAV arrival to an ILS off the FMS without further guidance? If I'm not mistaken, and I might be, it takes pre-programmed VNAV descents, FMS guidance, and glass to make it happen.
You guys can fly an VNAV/RNAV arrival to an ILS off the FMS without further guidance? If I'm not mistaken, and I might be, it takes pre-programmed VNAV descents, FMS guidance, and glass to make it happen.
The chart for the SEAVU2 doesn't require either one. It has all the radials and distances to fly it with VOR/DME. The ILS only requires DME or radar.
07-09-2009, 02:32 AM
#9807
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
The DC9 can definitely operate into & out of LAX. DFW, ORD, EWR, IAH, etc all have PLENTY of RNAV arrivals and the DC9 currently serves all of these airports. Whether it'll happen is a completely different debate.
07-09-2009, 04:42 AM
#9808
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: C47 PIC/747-400 SIC
Posts: 2,100
Buzz,
Are you telling me that all the arrivals into LAX are RNAV only? Because, unless something has changed in the last 10-12 years, that's not the case. I've descended on the CIVET and MITTS (which I guess is gone now) with nothing but an old 727-200, two VOR's, 2 DME's, a second officer, two brains using the 3:1 ratio, some comunication between those brains, and the L.A. Lakers or the Clippers in the back. We went to LAX in the 727-200 for the NBA charters all the time, with the same equpiment the DC-9 has today. Did something change?
On the East coast, we descend on whatever arrival that is going into LGA all the time. There is one we do into DCA/IAD as well. Why is LAX so special? (you are making me go look it up...here it is.... "Northwest 312, descend via the KORRY 3" [into LGA])
New K Now
Are you telling me that all the arrivals into LAX are RNAV only? Because, unless something has changed in the last 10-12 years, that's not the case. I've descended on the CIVET and MITTS (which I guess is gone now) with nothing but an old 727-200, two VOR's, 2 DME's, a second officer, two brains using the 3:1 ratio, some comunication between those brains, and the L.A. Lakers or the Clippers in the back. We went to LAX in the 727-200 for the NBA charters all the time, with the same equpiment the DC-9 has today. Did something change?
On the East coast, we descend on whatever arrival that is going into LGA all the time. There is one we do into DCA/IAD as well. Why is LAX so special? (you are making me go look it up...here it is.... "Northwest 312, descend via the KORRY 3" [into LGA])
New K Now
07-09-2009, 04:58 AM
#9809
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Trying to remember "Thrust Normal", "Checks", and something else besides "How are the rides today?"
Posts: 117
So here is my two cents on the big rumor:
If I were a betting man it might possibly have something to do with expansion in New York, Delta wants to be the premiere airline in New York city.
Just my two cents when I started to seriously look at the tea leaves.
It might have something to do with an announcement about JFK . While I think this one is a bit premature I would think that the workings of getting completely into Terminal 4 while not paying for any building developement until it can be used to generate revenue is still a sticking point for Delta and Port Authority.
I would not give much credence to any Frontier rumor. If not mistaken they fly A318 which no one wants.
Well so much for rabid speculation today.
If I were a betting man it might possibly have something to do with expansion in New York, Delta wants to be the premiere airline in New York city.
Just my two cents when I started to seriously look at the tea leaves.
It might have something to do with an announcement about JFK . While I think this one is a bit premature I would think that the workings of getting completely into Terminal 4 while not paying for any building developement until it can be used to generate revenue is still a sticking point for Delta and Port Authority.
I would not give much credence to any Frontier rumor. If not mistaken they fly A318 which no one wants.
Well so much for rabid speculation today.
Last edited by Selcall; 07-09-2009 at 07:16 AM.
07-09-2009, 05:27 AM
#9810
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: Left, left, left right left....
Posts: 911
A320: 3
A319: 38
A318: 10
Agree 318 is a turkey - too heavy for the yield, and requires a special jetway because the shortened fuselage forward of the wing has most jetways hitting the LH nacelle.
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