80ktsClamp

Nope... We fly globally. If other countries value their pilots that much more, we should be paid at least on par with them.

Not to mention those blue and red clown cars running around in ATL have their FO's making 30 grand more than me a year. I should be paid accordingly if Anderson considers us the best airline in the US... ALPA should be fighting for that.

TeddyKGB

Did I ever say we shouldn't? No. I just wasn't following his logic on how a "widebody" FO at Delta only makes $7700 per month so he clarified with a bunch of fuzzy numbers. Never said we shouldn't make more and I'm all for demanding big raises and scope improvements on contract 2012.

freightguy

I agree with you about middle east. I cannot and do not want to live my entire career there. Same with my buddy who pulled the plug and went to Korean. But he got that opportunity because he left Delta and 'invested' few years in the sandpit. Good for him. I don't know how his schedules and days off work for him at Korean. He said he flies two long haul trips a month.

About job security, yes... these foreign companies can fire you in an instant if you **** them off. But with heavy left seat time, you can easily find a new gig in today's market. But then again, you get fired here too if you do stupid stuff.

Don't get me wrong tsquare. I would ideally want to work here at my home in the US for my entire career. But not for the current rates and career progression outlook. I have lived in the Far East before and I would do that again as my plan B, if they offer a deal which suits me and my family better.

Delta will have to sweeten the pot for people like me to stay. With all the retirements over the horizon and the record low numbers of commercial pilots graduating, we will have the ball in our court soon. The minimums at the regionals are going up too. But they are not going to hand out candy for free. We have to fight for it. If we accept the current status quo, they will take advantage of our pilot group again. There is no need for us to keep handing out milk for cheap.

Good luck to both you and me, and all other Delta pilots!

tsquare

It's much deeper than that. Other countries value their aviation INDUSTRY more than does the US. Why else would we allow M R Rats to fly into so many places.. or BA to fly into 10-15 major cities in the US all the while barring us from Heathrow for so many years? Look at what is going on in Japan... Yet our politicians allow more and more and more... just wait to cabotage rears it's ugly head.. then we will see if we are a cohesive labor group or not.. Of course SWAPA probably couldn't care less about THAT...

Oh, and check your PM

caddis

Sink,

I think you mistook what I meant. The day I started at NWA they had 4 year captains and I would have retired near single digits. After 9/11 I get furloughed twice. I never applied at Delta, I don't remember why, but 13 or so years later I am wearing a double breasted uniform.

All I am saying is the picture of the airline industry today is much different the it was 10years ago and will be 10years from now.

But here is something we can for sure agree on. I will not vote for any scope sale that further erodes my career.

TenYearsGone

I had an epiphany last night. Our pay and work rules are a direct result of what we, PILOTS, voted-in (through fear or greed ) We can only blame ourselves for any contract shortcomings or scope erosion. Hopefully we learn and improve on this upcoming contract.

Have a great Sunday.

TEN

80ktsClamp

His math was right on.

If you are in the ER category, you are a widebody FO as anytime you walk out to that gate there could be a one sitting there. Don't sell yourself short.

freightguy

Fuzzy numbers? Let me break this down for you. Following are the Delta pay rates. For example, look at the fourth year Delta FO 757/767 pay. It is $111 per hour. To be precise $111 x min gurantee of 70= $7770. After taxes and deductions, a reserve pilot on the 7ER category will take home around $5500.

And yes... I fly a widebody for Delta. Just flew PEK-SEA. 11 hrs of flight time on a 7ER. Last I checked, 7ER is a widebody. Maynot be super premium widebody. But it is a widebody.

It still looks fuzzy to you? You want me to mail you my W2 as well?

Sink r8

I wasn't quite sure where you were headed with the first part of your first post, so I kept it light.

I'm certainly fine with what you posted above.

TeddyKGB

His math is right on for a 7ER FO. When he said he was a widebody FO ....nevermind. Next subject