Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
04-27-2012, 03:31 PM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Next? Next is this T. It is definitely not a dead horse that is getting beaten here. I and many I speak with have our criticisms of ALPA. They are warranted as well. We want to see meaningful change and better execution on their part.
That does not mean we are donut supporters. We back ALPA 100% now and are trusting them to follow our collective wishes. Now before you and all the acolytes start harping on what is collective to this group, let me say this. I have not heard of one person, none, that would be ok with 11%.
I have not heard of one that is any favor of selling more scope.
I also have had no one say they are happy with our current duty period credit.
Finally, have not met anyone that is happy with our current DC % particularly when other recently BK'd airlines are pulling in close 20% DC on top of a 2.4% a/b fund.
Lastly, Doug Parker just did us another giant favor. We should pass the hat around and send him a nice gift. Maybe an all expenses trip to Colombia.
When he bid on us in BK, he effectively caused a revaluation of our claims at a much higher rate. He just also reset the bottom on the pay spectrum with his APA deal. No more company pointing to AMR and the LCC circus and demanding a comp to them.
What does this all mean? DALPA better execute well here. If they do not, I am not sure that DPA will necessarily sweep right in. They could. But right behind them will be APA with a pitch with the full backing of CAPA, who now with the inevitable addition of LCC pilots, just became even more of a heavy weight on the Hill.
DALPA and ALPA are walking the tight rope right now. One error and it could be curtains. Whether it is a misreading of the pilot group prior to endorsing a substanderd TA, or a financially hobbling judgement in TWA v ALPA, ther is no room for a mistake.
That does not mean we are donut supporters. We back ALPA 100% now and are trusting them to follow our collective wishes. Now before you and all the acolytes start harping on what is collective to this group, let me say this. I have not heard of one person, none, that would be ok with 11%.
I have not heard of one that is any favor of selling more scope.
I also have had no one say they are happy with our current duty period credit.
Finally, have not met anyone that is happy with our current DC % particularly when other recently BK'd airlines are pulling in close 20% DC on top of a 2.4% a/b fund.
Lastly, Doug Parker just did us another giant favor. We should pass the hat around and send him a nice gift. Maybe an all expenses trip to Colombia.
When he bid on us in BK, he effectively caused a revaluation of our claims at a much higher rate. He just also reset the bottom on the pay spectrum with his APA deal. No more company pointing to AMR and the LCC circus and demanding a comp to them.What does this all mean? DALPA better execute well here. If they do not, I am not sure that DPA will necessarily sweep right in. They could. But right behind them will be APA with a pitch with the full backing of CAPA, who now with the inevitable addition of LCC pilots, just became even more of a heavy weight on the Hill.
DALPA and ALPA are walking the tight rope right now. One error and it could be curtains. Whether it is a misreading of the pilot group prior to endorsing a substanderd TA, or a financially hobbling judgement in TWA v ALPA, ther is no room for a mistake.
04-27-2012, 03:31 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Position: DAL FO
Posts: 134
Free Bird One would think that DALPA surely knows any more allowances for scope will result in their being replaced by DPA?
Free bird.....unfortunately it looks like ALPA is going to try and call your bluff. The sad part is.....it isn't a bluff.
Free bird.....unfortunately it looks like ALPA is going to try and call your bluff. The sad part is.....it isn't a bluff.
04-27-2012, 03:33 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,503
"While neither the MEC nor I are at liberty to discuss the many detailed moving parts of the current negotiations at this point, I will say this: The time to capitalize on opportunity is now, but that opportunity is also fleeting. If we are not able to reach an agreement in the near-term, we will likely revert to negotiations along a more traditional Section 6 timeline."
Followed later by:
"If we are able to reach a tentative agreement in the near-term and the MEC ratifies that agreement, it will only be because your elected representatives:
Here we go. Let the games begin. They are getting rid of 50's because they lose money. They are doing this regardless of the ongoing current labor negotiations. Trading a 50 that is destined for recycling for 900's--(not really 76's)-- above the current limit is a giant FAIL.
First thing they teach in sales is to create urgency. Any of you ever heard this before??
* "It is a one time offer"
* "Price increase in the next release"
* "Special financing only available for a short period of time, they won't tell us when it expires"
So, the cliff notes version = the opportunity is now and it is fleeting, it could be gone in an instant. If we present you with a TA it will because the MEC and reps believe we got all we can and that any additional negotiation will not achieve anymore gains.
Wow. TA is coming and the scope section is not going to be pretty. The spin has begun.
Followed later by:
"If we are able to reach a tentative agreement in the near-term and the MEC ratifies that agreement, it will only be because your elected representatives:
- Believe it is the right agreement at the right time, and
- Do not believe that proceeding down the traditional Section 6 timeline will result in a contract
that provides greater value to the Delta pilots
Here we go. Let the games begin. They are getting rid of 50's because they lose money. They are doing this regardless of the ongoing current labor negotiations. Trading a 50 that is destined for recycling for 900's--(not really 76's)-- above the current limit is a giant FAIL.
First thing they teach in sales is to create urgency. Any of you ever heard this before??
* "It is a one time offer"
* "Price increase in the next release"
* "Special financing only available for a short period of time, they won't tell us when it expires"
So, the cliff notes version = the opportunity is now and it is fleeting, it could be gone in an instant. If we present you with a TA it will because the MEC and reps believe we got all we can and that any additional negotiation will not achieve anymore gains.
Wow. TA is coming and the scope section is not going to be pretty. The spin has begun.
04-27-2012, 03:36 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Posts: 248
04-27-2012, 03:41 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,357
Why did I get a bad feeling reading the DALPA Chairman letter today? Is it just me or does this cleverly worded letter have scope sale (ie more large RJ's) written all over it?
"Important components of maintaining that momentum going forward will include, among other things, the refinement of Delta’s long-term business plan and the rationalization of Delta’s fleet. Therein lies the opportunity. In any negotiation, both parties typically have wants and needs. The Delta pilots have clearly expressed through the contract survey, and through contact with their local reps, the issues that we need to have addressed during these Section 6 negotiations. Likewise, management also has issues they’d like to address. Your MEC believes that by addressing each other’s issues and seeking mutually beneficial solutions in a rational manner, we will not only return immediate and ongoing value to the Delta pilot group, but also forge a path to significantly increase mainline flying through an increase in pilot block hours—and importantly, the ratio of pilot mainline to non-mainline block hours. We believe this approach is consistent with Delta’s long-term fleet plan and is in the best interests of the Delta pilots and Delta Air Lines.
Pilot mainline block hours, perhaps more than any other metric, are a direct measure of Delta pilot jobs. While neither the MEC nor I are at liberty to discuss the many detailed moving parts of the current negotiations at this point, I will say this: The time to capitalize on opportunity is now, but that opportunity is also fleeting."
"Important components of maintaining that momentum going forward will include, among other things, the refinement of Delta’s long-term business plan and the rationalization of Delta’s fleet. Therein lies the opportunity. In any negotiation, both parties typically have wants and needs. The Delta pilots have clearly expressed through the contract survey, and through contact with their local reps, the issues that we need to have addressed during these Section 6 negotiations. Likewise, management also has issues they’d like to address. Your MEC believes that by addressing each other’s issues and seeking mutually beneficial solutions in a rational manner, we will not only return immediate and ongoing value to the Delta pilot group, but also forge a path to significantly increase mainline flying through an increase in pilot block hours—and importantly, the ratio of pilot mainline to non-mainline block hours. We believe this approach is consistent with Delta’s long-term fleet plan and is in the best interests of the Delta pilots and Delta Air Lines.
Pilot mainline block hours, perhaps more than any other metric, are a direct measure of Delta pilot jobs. While neither the MEC nor I are at liberty to discuss the many detailed moving parts of the current negotiations at this point, I will say this: The time to capitalize on opportunity is now, but that opportunity is also fleeting."
04-27-2012, 03:41 PM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
It's quite obvious that ALPA is going to try and paint a further scope sale as good by painting it with the "ratio" brush. To me it shows just how powerless ALPA is. Even with the company making money hand over fist they still find a way to sell delta jobs. Unreal.... So if this is what we get when times are good I shutter to think what happens during tougher times. What are we gonna do.....outsource the 737's and 757's next because the 76-100 seater's can no longer make money? Oh wait.... Not enough will be outsourced to effect the "ratio". So it's all good.
If what I'm reading is true we need MUCH smarter negotiators at the table. If they can't see where this is headed they need to be removed.
If what I'm reading is true we need MUCH smarter negotiators at the table. If they can't see where this is headed they need to be removed.
I haven't read the letter yet, so I have no idea what is in it.. but let me know where you think we should be headed. And remember, obstinance will lead to a few more years under this BK contract...
04-27-2012, 03:43 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: A-320/A
Posts: 588
I am in the ATL Doubletree, training right now, also in the MD-88 program. Six days left of training scheduled. A lot of the instructors are talking like there is a cockpit panel retro-fit that the company has allotted research money for, and that they're going to try to get a decision on which panel around the 3rd Q. From what I can gather, they want more commonality among the the entire fleet. The 717 rumor is pretty rampant around here, but it appears only a rumor, as best I can tell. The 717 rumor just won't seem to die, but it appears only a rumor at this time. If it does have any basis in fact, I think we'll be hearing something from the company before too long. Just my opinion
04-27-2012, 03:46 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,503
Chest bumping.. nothing more. You have one vote. Exercise it as you see fit. Substandard is in the eyes of the 12,000, not you, not Carl, not bacon bits as individuals.. all the rest is just plain BS. Why don't you guys just stop with the idle threats, it really gets old.
They are not idle threats. It is reality.
04-27-2012, 03:49 PM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
A couple points:
1. I find it hard to believe that the negotiating committee, which is primarily made up of junior people, would give away any more large RJs.
2. If they are trading something for capping 50 seat flying, that is stupid- the amount of 50 seaters are echos of scope screw-up's past and are marginalizing themselves on their own due to being so over bought by mgmt. A lesson should be learned in that mgmt has to be protected from itself- we are the long term players at this carrier, not them.
1. I find it hard to believe that the negotiating committee, which is primarily made up of junior people, would give away any more large RJs.
2. If they are trading something for capping 50 seat flying, that is stupid- the amount of 50 seaters are echos of scope screw-up's past and are marginalizing themselves on their own due to being so over bought by mgmt. A lesson should be learned in that mgmt has to be protected from itself- we are the long term players at this carrier, not them.
04-27-2012, 03:55 PM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Rant on soldier, I am at peace with the process, and threats and donut BS doesn't scare me, other than the fact that it might mean 4 or 5 more years of a BK contract at a minimum..
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